Here we go again 140M DOWN

[20/80]

Hello everyone, Well last fall we took delivery of a brand new 140m for our sister shop, the other day after getting finished her third pm the operator was on his way to one of his roads on his route to be graded and he noticed a red engine alarm and a low oil pressure warning on the display he than immediately pulled over and shut down and called for our mobile mech, our mech arrived and did his inspection only to find the oil filter plugged with metal from inside the engine, NOT A GOOD SIGN!!! Low and behold we have seen this before at our own shop with our 140m, there were not any codes indicating any problems prior to the engine alarm, the pm was down correctly by our mech this is a major engine failure at 1500 hrs ours had a major engine failure at 900hrs both engines are c7's also I believe this machine had a injector problem about a month ago, Cat is going good for it as far as I know but now there's the down time which is costly, the amount of money that we pay for this product it should by all means be more reliable Cat has alway's been known as a quality product I run a 140h has over 10000 hrs on engine never touched still runs stronger than our new 140m with half the hours anyway is anybody else running the new m's having similar problems I figured Cat would have the bugs out of the m series by now, your thoughts on this issue are welcomed thanks everyone

 

[Cat 140M AWD]

Hi 20/80 you guys seem to be having terrible luck with the M series I work for a township who has an M I had the first series when I started and i run there series 2 140M for cople yrs now we just got a new 140M3 and we have had hardly any trouble with little injector trouble on the M2 but nothing like what your having happen hopefully you guys will start having better luck with them there a good machine.

 

[lantraxco]

To my knowledge the C7 and C9 have been a disaster for CAT. Never mind the usual piddling issues, they seem to randomly grenade at low hours like the cases you mention here. If you do a bit of googling, the motor home and road truck industries are full of examples, and some groups have tried to get a class action going. I would suppose mother CAT is suppressing valiantly, I don't know. One Morooka dealer I sell to told me that out of thirty some machines, mix of C7 and C9, they were trending toward a one third failure rate before they made 2,500 hours, mostly issues leading to an in frame and reman head, of course baskets of injectors and high pressure fuel pumps... They're hoping to turf them all out before the warranty expires, and hold on until Morooka gets switched over to Cummins for Tier4F. Sad.

 

[20/80]

Hi 20/80 you guys seem to be having terrible luck with the M series I work for a township who has an M I had the first series when I started and i run there series 2 140M for cople yrs now we just got a new 140M3 and we have had hardly any trouble with little injector trouble on the M2 but nothing like what your having happen hopefully you guys will start having better luck with them there a good machine.

Yes we had our share of troubles but in the end we got things sorted out, our older 140m seems to be holding it own... knock on wood

 

[20/80]

To my knowledge the C7 and C9 have been a disaster for CAT. Never mind the usual piddling issues, they seem to randomly grenade at low hours like the cases you mention here. If you do a bit of googling, the motor home and road truck industries are full of examples, and some groups have tried to get a class action going. I would suppose mother CAT is suppressing valiantly, I don't know. One Morooka dealer I sell to told me that out of thirty some machines, mix of C7 and C9, they were trending toward a one third failure rate before they made 2,500 hours, mostly issues leading to an in frame and reman head, of course baskets of injectors and high pressure fuel pumps... They're hoping to turf them all out before the warranty expires, and hold on until Morooka gets switched over to Cummins for Tier4F. Sad.

Yes Mother Cat is suppressing... major CSI happening on both sides, its $34000 for a short block here in Canada, and another $20,000 to get it installed at Cat, see what happens.

 

[lantraxco]

Yes Mother Cat is suppressing... major CSI happening on both sides, its $34000 for a short block here in Canada, and another $20,000 to get it installed at Cat, see what happens.

Unreal...

 

[20/80]

Yes Mother Cat is suppressing... major CSI happening on both sides, its $34000 for a short block here in Canada, and another $20,000 to get it installed at Cat, see what happens.

Hello eveveryone Just alittle update, after the major csi on the engine Cat is saying oil starvation meaning they are saying there was not any oil in the engine when the operator left the shop, the operator said the oil was in the safe working marks on the dipstick when he checked during his pretrip that morning, the department had to come good for the repairs Cat was not covering it, when the machine came back the operator also had problems with shims falling out of the circle during the grading season low and behold the circle was bent out of round from factory, just got the circle back from Quebec this is where Cat sent it to be trued, and its still out of round not as bad though Cat covered this repair but the down time is hard to deal with, your thoughts on these issues anyone?

 

[Tones]

Iv'e seen outfits overhere with Cat equipment but run Deere graders or the 140H. I guess that says alot about the M's.

 

[20/80]

Iv'e seen outfits overhere with Cat equipment but run Deere graders or the 140H. I guess that says alot about the M's.

Our older 140m has seemed to have the bugs worked out and is working not to bad, knock on wood, I really like the Deere grader pro with joystick and steering wheel looks like a way better setup than the Cat m series with joysticks only especially when you have to travel any distance with wing and plow you can't take yours eye's of the road not for one second this can be stressful after a 12-13 hour shift. thanks

 

[John C.]

The counties around here have been dumping the Deere for the Cats. Most have told me the location of the Deere joysticks causes their back and shoulders to cramp up after a couple hours. The bigger the operator the less they like the Deere.

I like the older Deere graders with the standard controls, they are nice smooth running machines. Then again I also like the M2 Cats so far.

 

[20/80]

The counties around here have been dumping the Deere for the Cats. Most have told me the location of the Deere joysticks causes their back and shoulders to cramp up after a couple hours. The bigger the operator the less they like the Deere.

I like the older Deere graders with the standard controls, they are nice smooth running machines. Then again I also like the M2 Cats so far.

I also like the older style, 140h is a really nice machine to operate and would take it over a m series anyday but of course i'm old school. thanks

 

[old-iron-habit]

Hello eveveryone Just alittle update, after the major csi on the engine Cat is saying oil starvation meaning they are saying there was not any oil in the engine when the operator left the shop, the operator said the oil was in the safe working marks on the dipstick when he checked during his pretrip that morning, the department had to come good for the repairs Cat was not covering it, when the machine came back the operator also had problems with shims falling out of the circle during the grading season low and behold the circle was bent out of round from factory, just got the circle back from Quebec this is where Cat sent it to be trued, and its still out of round not as bad though Cat covered this repair but the down time is hard to deal with, your thoughts on these issues anyone?

I would think there would be red lights flashing, and probably even a engine auto shutdown if oil pressure was not registering. Or have we gone backwards in time?

 

[20/80]

I would think there would be red lights flashing, and probably even a engine auto shutdown if oil pressure was not registering. Or have we gone backwards in time?

The operator said after about a mile a red light came on and low oil pressure on the screen, no alarm or buzzers or auto shut down at first he thought another injector was going in her, he pulled over and shut down.

 

[Fatgraderman]

No evidence of where the oil went? The short block that was dropped in, was it a reman or new? My complaint with the C7 is they are parent bore. So any reman might have a repair sleeve or two on gouged cylinders and then the rest is honed (and a bit over). I don't think there's any oversize for them (wasn't for 3116's and 3126's). It is nice in that you don't have block decks drop, but you can't return cylinders to new condition the way the other ones are.

 

[cuttin edge]

As far as I'm concerned, the only thing Cat makes that is any good any more is
a tractor. The last good loader was the F. I think that in order to stay competitive, that quality has gone out the window

 

[20/80]

No evidence of where the oil went? The short block that was dropped in, was it a reman or new? My complaint with the C7 is they are parent bore. So any reman might have a repair sleeve or two on gouged cylinders and then the rest is honed (and a bit over). I don't think there's any oversize for them (wasn't for 3116's and 3126's). It is nice in that you don't have block decks drop, but you can't return cylinders to new condition the way the other ones are.

I would say the block is a reman, what I think happened was the pm was done on the grader late Friday afternoon by our mobile mech he was called away on a emergency call out before finishing the pm but failed to tag out the machine before leaving, that same week the operater for that machine was on vacation he came in the following Monday pulled the dipstick in the machine when finishing up his pre trip and seen the old oil leftover that was drained on the safe operating marks on the stick and thought every thing was fine he didn't wipe and recheck, he did not see any tag out card on the machine and thought every thing was good to go, low and behold we lost a engine, both the operator and the mobile mech aren't saying much, this is why following pre trip procedures to the letter for your machine is so important. any opinions on this issued are welcomed thanks

 

[old-iron-habit]

I can see that happening, but I think its a stretch to believe there would still be oil on the dipstick after a weekend of hanging in no oil. I would still do a through check on all the gauges and idiot lights. The oil light should have been on from the start. Guess one can not fault Cat for not eating it if it was run without oil. Its unfortunate, bad things happen to good people to. We all hate belt and suspender procedures but they would have saved a ton of money here if followed properly.

 

[20/80]

I can see that happening, but I think its a stretch to believe there would still be oil on the dipstick after a weekend of hanging in no oil. I would still do a through check on all the gauges and idiot lights. The oil light should have been on from the start. Guess one can not fault Cat for not eating it if it was run without oil. Its unfortunate, bad things happen to good people to. We all hate belt and suspender procedures but they would have saved a ton of money here if followed properly.

Well said, of course this is just a theory of mine on this issue, I know the oil left on the dipstick is a long shot but that would only be the reason why the operator would consider starting the machine unless he didn't check anything thinking the pm was just done correctly, this operator is a good operator and takes pride in his work, I guess this could be used as a model of what can happen if pre trips aren't followed properly. thanks for your input

 

[Nige]

One of my former bosses always drilled it into us whenever it was considered to approach any manufacturer/dealer for support on something that had sh1t itself. "If you have a $100,000 claim you need a $100,000 story to back it up, not some notes scratched on the back of a cigarette packet. Your story has to be complete with proof and all the bells & whistles to confirm that you did everything you were supposed to at the appropriate time and that you'd done everything you possibly could to monitor & protect the health of whatever component was involved."

I never had too much issue getting 6-figure out-of-warranty claims settled amicably with manufacturers but the Failure Report that accompanied the claim usually resembled a novel the size of "War & Peace" by the time it was finished (back to the $100,000 story again) .........

 

[20/80]

One of my former bosses always drilled it into us whenever it was considered to approach any manufacturer/dealer for support on something that had sh1t itself. "If you have a $100,000 claim you need a $100,000 story to back it up, not some notes scratched on the back of a cigarette packet. Your story has to be complete with proof and all the bells & whistles to confirm that you did everything you were supposed to at the appropriate time and that you'd done everything you possibly could to monitor & protect the health of whatever component was involved."

I never had too much issue getting 6-figure out-of-warranty claims settled amicably with manufacturers but the Failure Report that accompanied the claim usually resembled a novel the size of "War & Peace" by the time it was finished (back to the $100,000 story again) .........

Hi Nige, I have to agree, mother Cat did their own CSI on this machine and engine and came to their own conclusion...Not going to be covered by warranty... no matter what kind of a story you come up with Cat has the tech behind them now to tell you exactly what has happened to your engine regardless the story. thanks