New CAT D6

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

A little O/T but I think I may have mentioned in an old thread about a local small contractor here who had a tidy scrub cab Komatsu 65. He had his own float and mostly worked within the shire and by all accounts was doing pretty good.

He told me the tractor was all paid out and had set a month aside to go through the finals and give her a good clean up and a paint . . . about then he won a hundred grand or so in a lottery and splurged out on a new hi-track six with all the trimmings just as things got tight.

It didn't end well but I suppose he spent his last few days in business working in air conditioned comfort. The crazy thing was there was customer resistance and he was struggling to get ten bucks an hour more for the Cat . . . around here there is no premium for new gear with shiny paint

Cheers.

 

[Tones]

Yair . . .
. . . around here there is no premium for new gear with shiny paint

Cheers.

Ain't that the truth. I'm real happy to own all my equipment outright and I don't give a dam what the market does. One peace has bugger all market value but still makes good money when it works so I guess it will be reincarnated in China when the time comes. There is no way in todays economy I'd buy new, for it's just to iffy.

 

[Nige]

The old rule was that the cost of a total rebuild should be no more than sixty five percent of a new machine and you should get at least sixty five percent of the life of a new machine.

I don't want to take isue with you John but we were looking for 95+% of original life on rebuilds - at least to the until next rebuild anyway.

I agree that laour hours cost the same whatever size of machine your're working on but working on a smaller machine is going to need less hours, not necessarily in proportion to size but at least somewhere close.

 

[pafarmer]

I will be doing a complete CCR plus on both tractors. I will be getting back two basically brand new machines for all intents and purposes. I added a few other items to the basic CCR , like cab being totally rebuilt, seat, winches will be rebuilt, replace all hydro hoses etc.

On top of the CCR on my original tractors I will be getting a brand new D6 machine to add to my fleet....the new machine will be delivered in a few weeks and both of my original tractors have already been delivered to CAT and they have started the CCR process .....

This approach will allow me time in a brand new tractor and the tax incentives of buying new and then I can decide on the two others once they are returned to me. The CCR program is roughly less than half the cost of buying new for those of you considering that as an option..

Thanks to everyone and a special thanks to Nige on his valuable advise to consider the CCR option..

Farmer

 

[Nige]

I hope you're going to have the whole process documented in photos. It should make for good viewing.

As an aside I was always under the impression that a CCR included a complete re-hosing of the machine (hydraulic, fuel, coolant, heater/aircon, and air intake) and a new operator's seat. Regarding the cab AFAIK all new switches were included, as were all new louvres for the aircon/heater system but cab trim panels were not. This may not be the case on smaller machines. If you have a seating choice consider the installation of air suspension seats if you don't already have them and if they are available for your particular model.

 

[JDOFMEMI]

Al lthe way through this thread I still did not see what model D-6 pafarmer had, but I am sure he will be glad to have made the rebuild choice once some time accumulates on the new tier(tear) 4 machine.

I have heard nothing good about the new ones, and have experienced it firsthand. I had a tier 4 D-6T on rent, and my first impression was great, but a half hour later, it went into regen mode, and would hardly push over a healthy anthill. The tractor would loose engine speed, and all power went away. It ran that way for a half hour or so, then was fine, but an hour of so later it did the same thing. It was next to useless during the time in regen.

I am keeping all of my old machines and rebuilding as I can afford to. I will have to add some newer ones sometime, but hope to be able to put off tier 4 long enough for some of the many bugs to get sorted out.

I have done rebuilds before, not full CCR, but close, and have been very happy with the results. I plan on more of the same, as new replacement is not very attractive to me at this time due to the emissions and electronics, the 2 Achilles heels of new iron. Structural and mechanical systems on the new Cat iron is the best ever, but electrical and emissions are causing more downtime and repair cost than anything else.

For my newer machines, electrical repairs are running more per hour than undercarriage replacement, and the emissions systems are even worse.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I am keeping all of my old machines and rebuilding as I can afford to. I will have to add some newer ones sometime, but hope to be able to put off tier 4 long enough for some of the many bugs to get sorted out.

For my newer machines, electrical repairs are running more per hour than undercarriage replacement, and the emissions systems are even worse.

My point earlier is that they have been building these things, in trucks anyway, since 2007 and they are still not figured out. If they cannot figure it out in 9 years, when are they ever?

 

[old-iron-habit]

I to hope that the rebuilds can be documented. Sounds like a great thread. What kind of a down time will the rebuilds take?

 

[Delmer]

My point earlier is that they have been building these things, in trucks anyway, since 2007 and they are still not figured out. If they cannot figure it out in 9 years, when are they ever?

I would have said the same thing about emissions in gas engine cars in the late 70's and early 80's, they didn't seem to have a clue how to build a good engine anymore. By the 90's it seemed to work fine, and now we've forgotten all about the smog junk.

Hopefully these bad years won't last too much longer?

 

[movindirt]

Sounds like a good plan, post some pictures of them before they get rebuilt if you get a chance, be interesting to see what shape they were in before.

 

[Shimmy1]

Nige, isn't the CCR going to cost the same regardless of the shape the machine is in, within reason, of course? Example being the rebuild would cost the same with undercarriage at 10% as it would at 30%? Engine condition wouldn't matter unless it was missing a rod, or some part thereof?

 

[pafarmer]

Nige, isn't the CCR going to cost the same regardless of the shape the machine is in, within reason, of course? Example being the rebuild would cost the same with undercarriage at 10% as it would at 30%? Engine condition wouldn't matter unless it was missing a rod, or some part thereof?

That would make perfect sense to me as well. A full build is just that, a full rebuild. With that in mind I agree that the amount of wear and tear of any particular system or subsystem would be a mute point in terms of cost....within reason as you mentioned. I never thought to ask them for the CCR to be documented. I will ask if that would possible and if it in reason on terms of cost I have them do that so everyone here, including myself can see exactly what work is performed.

I promised not to rush them if I could have the new machine in my hands within a week or two however I will ask what the normal CCR takes in terms of time to complete on a small tractor such as a D6....this is the first time I have ever had this option used and of it goes well as it was described!I can see this being my preferred course of action in the future. The machine will be returned to me with a new serial number so the actual work being completed is very extensive...this is going to be interesting to see how everything turns Out. I was basically promised a new machine inside and out ....

 

[Shimmy1]

The point of my question was this: Are the rails good for another season, or do they need to be changed out now, and is 2000 hrs less than what you'll put on it this season? I'm sure I'm not alone here, my question is if these machines would have ran another season with only expected and marginal unexpected maintenance costs, if you're going to do a CCR, why not run them out??

 

[bam1968]

The point of my question was this: Are the rails good for another season, or do they need to be changed out now, and is 2000 hrs less than what you'll put on it this season? I'm sure I'm not alone here, my question is if these machines would have ran another season with only expected and marginal unexpected maintenance costs, if you're going to do a CCR, why not run them out??

I was thinking the same thing. If that is the case, I would be inclned to run it out. I don't know what the hourly rates are in the OP's neck of the woods but, for easy figuring, use $100/ HR. So, 2000 hrs could produce a minium of $200,000 gross income. Realistically it's probably more like $150-175 /HR. On the other hand, if his U/C is already ran out then I think it would make the decision alot more difficult. Just my $.02

 

[Nige]

never thought to ask them for the CCR to be documented. I will ask if that would possible and if it in reason on terms of cost I have them do that so everyone here, including myself can see exactly what work is performed.

Photographic documentation of a CCR was SOP at every dealer I ever had contact with. They used it as a marketing tool to generate further work.

I was basically promised a new machine inside and out ....

Which is why I was more than a little surprised when you mentioned having to cough up extra for a new operator seat & re-hosing. Did you see my comment about the air suspension seat as an upgrade if the tractors don't already have them..?

Shimmy, On the face of it your thoughts about the undercarriage have merit. However you have to remember that all the parts removed from the machine during the CCR are returned to the customer along with the machine at the end of the process. Therefore there's no reason why the customer can't store all the part-worn undercarriage components and use them at some time in the future. Let's face it even things 2nd-hand hydraulic hoses have their potential uses if they are correctly stored. There should also be a huge great bin of old nuts & bolts come back with the machine because pretty much every fastener will be replaced with new.

 

[Cmark]

Cat are actively moving away from the mechanical suspension seats. The last, maybe three seats we have replaced, there has been a direct part number replacement from mechanical suspension to air suspension and the cost is approaching a thousand dollars cheaper as well.

 

[Nige]

Cat are actively moving away from the mechanical suspension seats. The last, maybe three seats we have replaced, there has been a direct part number replacement from mechanical suspension to air suspension and the cost is approaching a thousand dollars cheaper as well.

As far as I'm concerned air-suspended seats in track-type tractors are the mutts nuts, especially for the operator. I know a lot of machines already have a branch in the wiring harness that terminates behind the seat to connect to the suspension mechanism air compressor. What happens in the case of a machine that doesn't have dedicated power nearby..?

 

[Cmark]

As far as I'm concerned air-suspended seats in track-type tractors are the mutts nuts, especially for the operator. I know a lot of machines already have a branch in the wiring harness that terminates behind the seat to connect to the suspension mechanism air compressor. What happens in the case of a machine that doesn't have dedicated power nearby..?

I suppose you have to wire one in. We upgraded one late last year which was a 2004 D6R AKA and that had the wiring already there.

*Edit D8R.*

 

[pafarmer]

I did see your comment on the seat Nige and have taken action in that direction. They will both get upgraded seat, panels changed in the cab etc.....An air suspension seat will be added...The items I will be coughing up more on were not there to begin with if you follow me:bash

 

[JS300]

pafarmer, rebuilding an older machine seems like a good option to me (if the price is right). Wondering what series your current 6's are, how long did you run them, and how many hours do they have. Downtime becomes a big deal when you have several employees and and can be a major factor when deciding whether or not to upgrade equipment.