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The Great Gradall Project

kshansen

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Mar 11, 2012
Messages
11,165
Location
Central New York, USA
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Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
Well, now I said I didn't think I'd ever seen one. I avoid Harleys like the plague, since everybody I know who has one talks about how much they have to work on them! :tong
mitch504

Watch what you say about Harleys, guys that work on them are the best mechanics in the world, must be with all that practice:D
 

CraneInnovation

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Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Messages
143
Location
United States
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Structural Engineer
Figured I was overdue for an update.

The next task was filling in the lower corner and the top of the windshield frame. To get the radii right, I put cardboard behind the opposite corner and used spraypaint to transfer the profile. I cut the piece out and cut it to fit the missing space at the bottom of the window frame. When the piece fit, we cut the same shape out of 12 gauge sheet metal and welded in. Still a bit new to this, but it didn't turn out half bad:

DSCF0113.jpg

I then laid out the top frame. I laid this out directly from the new windshield to ensure a correct fit. I added a marker's width under the assumption that extra metal can be ground off, but welding new metal on is much harder.

DSCF0108.jpg

Bobby cut it out, we fit it up, and he welded it in. Some grinding, sanding, and a coat of primer later and...

DSCF0117.jpg

..we might actually have a cab!

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Our surface prep process is as follows:

Clean/degrease with acetone, as needed (most of the machine is grease and oil free).

Sand with 80 grit paper to expose non-faded paint (its under there.....) and/or remove loose rust.

Wipe down with acetone to expose a perfectly clean layer of paint or metal.

Prime. Right now we're applying Rustoleum Heavy Duty Primer with brushes/rollers due to limited areas and lack of a paint booth. It is pretty thick, but it works well in the areas of heavy pitting we are encountering in all the tight spots around the cab. It shows brush marks, but we figure they can be sanded out for the final paint job. For now, it gives us a rugged finish that will last until spring when we can spray a proper finish.

More to come...
 

CraneInnovation

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Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Messages
143
Location
United States
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Structural Engineer
We also removed the dash assembly and the "sled" with the breakers and pneumatic components below it to completely empty the cab. For being a complete mess, it all came out fairly easily:

DSCF0114.jpg

There was legitimate MUD behind it... The bottom of the compartment, where the air lines terminate, was a solid quarter inch of flake rust and mud. There was also an old wasp nest. It all fell victim to the sander and the whizzer:

DSCF0126.jpg

Meanwhile, Pat has this mess to deal with:

DSCF0121.jpg

DSCF0122.jpg

However, he is more than up to the task. He is planning a complete rebuild, including a new dash panel. The word "anodized" has been mentioned...

DSCF0123.jpg
 

CraneInnovation

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Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Messages
143
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United States
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Structural Engineer
After finishing the fabrication on the cab, Bobby is jumping into the battery box. It had three or four good bumps left before the battery was headed right down through the bottom:

DSCF0124.jpg

DSCF0125.jpg

Meanwhile, I've been working on the cab re-paint. By the end of the night, even my beer smelled like acetone.

DSCF0127.jpg

DSCF0128.jpg

DSCF0129.jpg

Onward and upward...
 

CM1995

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Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
13,382
Location
Alabama
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Running what I brung and taking what I win
Thanks for the update.

By the end of the night, even my beer smelled like acetone.

I have a rule - I don't let drinking interfere with my work and work interfere with my beer drinking.:D
 

CraneInnovation

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Jul 24, 2013
Messages
143
Location
United States
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Structural Engineer
That's a great rule!

I realized after the fact that I made it sound like the beers were being had while using the acetone. Rather, the acetone stayed inside my head so long that I could still smell it when the waitress at Applebees brought the pitcher of Guinness over. And yes.....I shared it with others :D
 

CraneInnovation

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Jul 24, 2013
Messages
143
Location
United States
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Structural Engineer
Update!!

We decided that the time involved in testing all the dash components, confirming/tracing wiring, cleaning, and repainting to an acceptable level would consume far too much time and still give us a mediocre product. We decided to bite the bullet and completely rebuild the dash and control system. Pat selected the components, and we've ordered them over the last week or two. This includes a custom blue anodized dash panel....that should be here next week!

New gauges showed up:

DSCF0137.jpg

The pneumatic control components on the "sled" in the electronics compartment are being disassembled, cleaned, and rebuilt. Pat is hard at work on the formerly grody manifold:

DSCF0132.jpg

Ted is our chemical wizard and recommended the use of Xylene as a cleaning/degreasing solvent instead of the acetone and brake clean we have been using. His rationale involved organic chemistry and polar/non-polar substances and a bit of health info (xylene is slightly less harmful than acetone, although neither is terribly bad in reasonable amounts). He suggested that normal HDPE (No. 2) spray bottles should work OK for a few weeks (do NOT use polypro!!!). We tested the xylene yesterday and HOLY COW. This stuff is the BOMB in the shop!! Seriously, if you have not tried Xylene as a general degreaser, TRY IT. Careful around rubber and plastic (similar issues with brake clean) but this stuff is FAR more effective. It beats the pants off acetone. This is the back of the formerly VERY messy torque converter and power steering pump after a brief cleaning session with the xylene:

Almost nothing in this picture was yellow 20 minutes earlier.

DSCF0135.jpg
 

CraneInnovation

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Messages
143
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United States
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Structural Engineer
We have also begun repainting!

I have decided to break with tradition and go with a cobalt blue and white paint scheme. It is not totally finalized, but the plan is white cabs, rims, and outer boom and cobalt blue for everything else. We will be doing a full sandblast/repaint in the spring but we decided to go ahead with basic work in the dash and front cab area before reinstalling the control components.

What do you think?!

DSCF0134.jpg

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The back of the front access panel had some deep pitting, but came out nice. The front (reverse side) is white:

DSCF0136.jpg

This is the formerly muddy, rusty, black pneumatics sled. The cobalt blue and shined up components are going to look great! We will be re-assembling with stainless hardware.

DSCF0139.jpg

Still having a blast! Work is ongoing this weekend, so there will be more to share in a few days.
 

CM1995

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Alabama
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Running what I brung and taking what I win
Looks great! Can I send my Gradall 534D6 up next for you to refurbish?:D
 
Last edited:

CraneInnovation

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Jul 24, 2013
Messages
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Structural Engineer
CM1995:

Haha, that night we were just saying that maybe we should do this full time! Its been a real blast. I think we'll wait to get this one running before we ask for someone else's money to do theirs :D

Dad5:

The plan is threefold. Together, we all have projects we need done around our respective yards or parent's yards. Second, I want to start a small business doing odd jobs and targeting homeowners who have quick (less than 4 hour) jobs that are too expensive for an excavator but a Gradall can just drive up and set to work at. The sky is the limit, in theory, but a few days of work a month would be a nice bit of income. Thirdly, I want to build my own house.
 

245dlc

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Mar 16, 2010
Messages
1,228
Location
Canada
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Heavy Equipment Operator
I was looking at buying a used G3WD for doing roadside ditching jobs and other related municipal work but after seeing how much time and money you've had to put into this particular one I think I'll just stick with getting a mini-excavator of one type or another. However you guys have done some amazing work! :)
 

CraneInnovation

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Jul 24, 2013
Messages
143
Location
United States
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Structural Engineer
I was looking at buying a used G3WD for doing roadside ditching jobs and other related municipal work but after seeing how much time and money you've had to put into this particular one I think I'll just stick with getting a mini-excavator of one type or another. However you guys have done some amazing work! :)

Thanks! Its been fun.

Actually, my experience with the rebuild has confirmed my belief that a G3WD is still the best bang for the buck available for the small, cost-conscious company. A few reasons:

These machines are VERY easy to work on. Everything is easily accessible and designed for ease of maintenance. The service and parts manuals are great and include some excellent diagnostic routines that are designed to pinpoint issues quickly by people who didn't spend 5 years designing the machine first. Very user friendly. I have not encountered any other machine or device in my life so well geared to be maintained properly by their end users.

You just can't beat the prices! I paid essentially salvage value for the powertrain components (less than 6k), so the issues here were a given. However, you can easily get a G3WD in good working order and minimal rot/rust for under 15k. This buys a road-legal machine that can do some real work but still get most places (particularly roadside). Dig down 18', reach up and load trucks, lift a few ton, mobilize in minutes. Awesome value!

Everyone I've had look at it is very impressed with the mechanical design. These machines are superb examples of rugged, simple design and quality manufacturing (electronics not included, per se). I have yet to see an example of where the original designers cut significant corners.

Granted, I haven't used it for any real work yet, but the rebuild project has given me confidence that we made the right choice.
 

245dlc

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Canada
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Heavy Equipment Operator
Thanks! Its been fun.

Actually, my experience with the rebuild has confirmed my belief that a G3WD is still the best bang for the buck available for the small, cost-conscious company. A few reasons:

These machines are VERY easy to work on. Everything is easily accessible and designed for ease of maintenance. The service and parts manuals are great and include some excellent diagnostic routines that are designed to pinpoint issues quickly by people who didn't spend 5 years designing the machine first. Very user friendly. I have not encountered any other machine or device in my life so well geared to be maintained properly by their end users.

You just can't beat the prices! I paid essentially salvage value for the powertrain components (less than 6k), so the issues here were a given. However, you can easily get a G3WD in good working order and minimal rot/rust for under 15k. This buys a road-legal machine that can do some real work but still get most places (particularly roadside). Dig down 18', reach up and load trucks, lift a few ton, mobilize in minutes. Awesome value!

Everyone I've had look at it is very impressed with the mechanical design. These machines are superb examples of rugged, simple design and quality manufacturing (electronics not included, per se). I have yet to see an example of where the original designers cut significant corners.

Granted, I haven't used it for any real work yet, but the rebuild project has given me confidence that we made the right choice.

Yeah I've seen a lot of them for sale in the U.S. and the odd one in Canada and like you said for bargain bin prices. Maybe once you get it all fixed up and running take some video of it digging if you don't mind I know they've got an odd control pattern compared to a regular excavator I'd be curious if that could be changed? I thought about getting one for quite a while and even installing a pintle hitch to pull a trailer for moving a skid-steer or mini excavator if need be.
 

CraneInnovation

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Structural Engineer
Yeah I've seen a lot of them for sale in the U.S. and the odd one in Canada and like you said for bargain bin prices. Maybe once you get it all fixed up and running take some video of it digging if you don't mind I know they've got an odd control pattern compared to a regular excavator I'd be curious if that could be changed? I thought about getting one for quite a while and even installing a pintle hitch to pull a trailer for moving a skid-steer or mini excavator if need be.

We've got the same thought process. I am hoping to pull a dump trailer with enough capacity for a yard or two of topsoil, any stumps or debris that might accumulate on a small homeowner job, and some tools. I'd also like to put some tool boxes on the empty space on the excavator deck and maybe even a small hydraulic power pack on top of the counterweight to run normal high pressure tools. At least a hammer, maybe a mower. I think I can run the aux lines right down the side of the boom with flex track.

I'll definitely upload some videos. The control pattern is definitely different (not quite ISO or Standard) and the motion is obviously unique. The range of motion is also odd with the boom right next to you verses over head.

Can't wait to get some seat time and try it out.
 

245dlc

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So it's been a few months just wondering how your restoration is coming along? Hope all is going well. :)
 

CraneInnovation

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Structural Engineer
So it's been a few months just wondering how your restoration is coming along? Hope all is going well. :)

As of the first Saturday in January, myself and the Gradall team have been working with the local FIRST Robotics Team (#1058, the PVC Pirates) as engineering and fabrication mentors. Our lead coach is the owner of the shop we are working at. It consumed nearly every weeknight and Saturday from then till now. The good news is that our team put together one of the best machines in its history and won the top Engineering Excellence awards at our first competition at the University of New Hampshire this weekend :cool: We have another competition in Boston in two weeks and (hopefully) the District Championship and World Championship after that....fingers crossed!

This is the program:

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc

Our first ball shooter test can be seen here. While it might not look like much, we clearly had the longest distance shooter at our recent competition. These large yoga balls take more to throw than you might think. All the guys working on the Gradall rebuild are in that video (the G3WD is actually just two bays down from this test)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHuoHN51brQ&feature=player_detailpage

I'll try to get some other pics of the robot up, its quite the machine.

Nevertheless, we've continued to make progress on the Gradall. Pat has begun a SERIOUS rebuild of the electronics after we determined that the existing system is far to heavily "modified" to be worth trying to diagnose. With a new dashboard in progress, replacing the rest of the components is just a no-brainer at this point. They're as old as I am. I'll get some pics of the new dash up shortly.....its some serious cable porn. Pat is a real pro with this stuff and I'm glad for his help.

In order to give the shop owner the space back during our extended electronics rebuild, we had to move the machine out with no power or brakes.... The Trojan 1700 saved us from some serious pry-bar time...

Pat is running the loader and Bobby (our welder) is steering the G3WD with no power steering.... He hated us.....

IMAG2228.jpg

Sliding into some space next to the shop...

IMAG2229.jpg

We've been away from the big yellow mess for a few weeks, but we're back in action looking forward to a productive spring.
 

CraneInnovation

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Structural Engineer
Our FRC robotics team made it to the New England District Championship last weekend, but, sadly, we did not qualify for the World Championship. However, with our nights and weekends back, we are back into the old G3WD.

Our priority this weekend was continuing metal work in the carrier cab and fixing a major power steering leak from the steering box. We originally thought the leak was from the lower adjustment poppet (which was bent) but a closer inspection suggested it was coming from higher up....a location inaccessible without removal of the steering gear. Welp...guess we're gonna learn about that now. :rolleyes:

After pulling the Gradall into the shop without power or brakes, we started with removing the bumper. I'll tell you, short of a few good wrenches and a hacksaw, a Trojan 1700 loader is the most useful shop tool you can have!

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This completely exposed the welded steering gear mounting box...but, of course, all of the enclosed sides were the ones that would have been easiest to get to.

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After removing the hoses, we tried the 1/2 inch gun on the main bolts.....then the 3/4 inch gun......then the 1" gun. That did it!

IMAG2262.jpg
 

CraneInnovation

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After we got the steering box down, the VERY first thing we did was index the Pittman arm.

IMAG2263.jpg

Removing the Pittman arm took a few tries, but we ended up just placing a chisel into the gap where the clamp bolt was and driving it in until it bit. With a few more blows....she slid right off.

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With the steering box on the bench, the source of the leak was easy to find... In this shot, "down" is on the upper right and you can clearly see where the oil was running down the box.

IMAG2265.jpg

My primary theory at this point is that the hole in the center of the picture is NOT supposed to be open to air. Even in that picture, you can see that it clearly goes back into the bare steel of the box interior. While it may be a breather, I suspect a check valve of some kind is missing from that hole. It is not threaded, but we do not believe it is supposed to be open.

Disassembly of the box revealed its inner components and seals, which all appeared to be in good shape. On Monday, we will be contacting Eaton to order replacement seals and see if we are missing some kind of plug/breather check valve in that hole.

IMAG2266.jpg

Slowly, but surely, we are making progress! Still having a blast and learning alot.
 
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