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Chinese equipment

watglen

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Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
1,324
Location
Dunnville, Ontario, Canada
Occupation
Farmer, drainage and excavating contractor, Farm d
I was talking to a guy yesterday; he was telling me his company just brought in a new wheel loader from China.

They paid $38,000 US delivered in Canada. I think he said it was a Shandong. Around 250hp CAT engine, ZF transmission.

It came with a full compliment of spares and maintenance parts, hydraulic and engine kits.

They were able to spec whatever components they wanted, Shandong assembled it. So they chose as many non-chinese components they could.

As the story goes, local CAT was pissed because the engine agreement was CAT would supply engines as long as they didn't leave China. Local CAT has already told them to forget getting parts for the engine.

Brand new for $38000. Too good to be true? I think so.
 

Aussie Broker

Active Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
32
Location
Australia
Does sound cheap even for Chinese equipment. Cheap horsepower if it is true..:beatsme
If Cat are supplying engines there they wont be for much longer the chinese will have it striped and copied pretty soon.
 
Last edited:

245dlc

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
1,228
Location
Canada
Occupation
Heavy Equipment Operator
I've seen the advertisements for some of the Chinese equipment in the equipment traders. But I figured if it did manage to get into somebody's yard it would either sit there or end up getting cut up for scrap as they have no parts or service network set up yet. Anyway good luck with your loader funny name by the way.:)
 

Speedpup

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Jul 6, 2007
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New York
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President and all else that needs done!
Does sound cheap even for Chinese equipment. Cheap horsepower if it is true..:beatsme
If Cat are supplying engines there they wont be for much longer the chinese will have it striped and copied pretty soon.

You got that right. They copy and steal everything. They ignore patents and have an estimated 50,000 industrial spy's in the US alone. hey cos companies billions in copyright infringement.:mad: To bad the people are still oppressed and they die in coal mines by the thousands for cheap coal. Sorry they all need to be free in Communist China.
 

joispoi

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
1,284
Location
Connecticut
You got that right. They copy and steal everything. They ignore patents and have an estimated 50,000 industrial spy's in the US alone. hey cos companies billions in copyright infringement.:mad: To bad the people are still oppressed and they die in coal mines by the thousands for cheap coal. Sorry they all need to be free in Communist China.

A lot of people think companies can afford the copyright infringements. After all, if they're still in business, what do they need billions of more dollars for? When the national debt is measured in trillions, the country's economy acts like a hydraulic system that doesn't have enough fluid. If the oil has been syphoned off by a second party, the pump will draw air, cavitate and send foam (inflated oil/ credit) throughout the entire system (if it sends anything at all) but it's an inadequate replacement.

The problem is that the Chinese gov't is subsidizing their exports. They sell their goods to other countries for less than what it costs to manufacture their products. Their gov't pays the difference. If a country's philosophy is "Business is War", how well will other countries fair if they are shackled by "Free Market" treaties that they have signed (with the best of intentions, of course)? If you don't know the answer off hand, I'll make a statement of fact. China is a cash rich country. The USA and most other western countries have considerable debt.

China can keep their products. :cool:
 

cps

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
811
Location
Ireland
Occupation
plant mechanic
I seen pictures of a chinese machine at Bauma Germany covered up, they copied JCB and they got a court order to stop them!! sounds like a long law suit coming up??
 

INDREM

Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
22
Location
Louisville, KY
Occupation
Mechanic
I would never purchase components or machines from China. I am a mechanic and I have talked with plenty of mechanics who know better. Parts might have a manufactures name on them but they are probably fake. Stick with machines that have components and parts that were all produced by the same company. Cat has all Cat. Volvo has all Volvo. There are exceptions of course. It makes technical support and finding parts less of an issue when a machine has a failure... and it will. If you buy a machine make sure the company has excellent support and a knowledgable network. It will save you downtime when it counts. I don't care what anyone says. You do not buy from China. The quality and standards are not there. You get exactly what you pay for. There is always a guy that will do it cheaper. What are his standards?
 

joispoi

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
1,284
Location
Connecticut
Companies selling Chinese products and equipment should be ashamed of themselves. They are profiting off of taking cash out of our local economies, which will NEVER return. The customer saves a few bucks, the carpet-bagging vendor makes his margin on blood money and local economy is undermined because money that would have cycled through the system if a domestic product had been built has been removed from the game....permanently. Save money today on a purchase, but then find out that nobody can afford your services because nobody has enough money. The current state of the economy is a direct of the trade imbalance. We CANNOT afford this cheap crap that China is dumping on us.
 

smokey1

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Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
114
Location
West Bridgewater,MA.
Occupation
Builder/Owner
I'm not on here to push China equipment, But I picked up a HT-65 Racoon last fall. I am very happy with the machine. It is strong, sure footed and has a full set of options. The skid steer, has the perkins 65 hp engine, bobcat drive pumps and motor assembly, case drive motors and controls. It is almost 90% non china parts. I could not walk away from this machine because the price, was so low. The only negative is service documents are very hard to obtain in english. And they don't do to good when they wire up switches. And it is a bit slow to get parts. The service network is very poor in the USA, and the big reason you dont see many arround. This mod. is about 7000 lbs, and easily lifts 2000, with the bucket, has a 16 gpm auxillary pump, also american made. It's about the size of an 843 bobcat. It came from Hero Time co. in china. Who are the biggest exporter of skid steers in china. But the machine has a little bit of Cat, New Holland,case, John Deere,Bobcat, eaton, prince, and you name it parts and design. But the price per pound is less than half of the american made skid steers. In the case of these machines, china just buys up all the . Surplus parts and puts them back together under there own lables, so they realy are not steeling pattern rights. . I would not want to see just anyone buy one of these because, there is very littte service documentation or support in this country. Parts are realy no problem. because there are plenty of surplus around.
 

CRAFT

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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
929
Location
100 M H,BC,Canada
Occupation
30 yrs Owner/Operator
What a SAD day it will be when all of our home grown will be wiped out because of the many that support the Asian markets

If anything it will or should wake-up the North American marketers to get real with their Priceing
As an example ..... I own a Bobcat. When I need simple things like filters for it I usually call the dealer first, well most of the time I find that their priceing is way out to lunch.
I turn around and call my local saw shop who deals in many things not just saws (Stihl and Husky ) but is also where I buy my oils, grease, Cat brand hyd. hoses ect. .... he also happens to deal in Donaldson filters ...... once the cross over is done its a piece of cake ...... usually at a third of the OEM cost. When I bring this to the attention of the dealer ... the smart a** parts guy will say that I'm buying an inferior product not even asking what brand it is ...... (air filter-$14.95 vs $59.00 you do the math) .... AS we all know Bobcat also makes their own filters ???? .... " NOT " .... they're made by Donaldson with the puddy logo on it .... and to top it off the saw shop buys all of the stuff from our area Cat/finning dealer .... (said so on the shrink wrap) ..... Huhhh .... go figure !
So a guy can buy N. American stuff at reasonable prices, just have to shop around .....AND the dealers gotta get their heads out of their A**es and if they want to stay around.
My thoughts are the same about Grey Market machines, keep supporting them and they will eventually take over ....then watch what happens ..... JMHO
 

Speedpup

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Jul 6, 2007
Messages
1,214
Location
New York
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President and all else that needs done!
Companies selling Chinese products and equipment should be ashamed of themselves. They are profiting off of taking cash out of our local economies, which will NEVER return. The customer saves a few bucks, the carpet-bagging vendor makes his margin on blood money and local economy is undermined because money that would have cycled through the system if a domestic product had been built has been removed from the game....permanently. Save money today on a purchase, but then find out that nobody can afford your services because nobody has enough money. The current state of the economy is a direct of the trade imbalance. We CANNOT afford this cheap crap that China is dumping on us.

:drinkup foreign cars too & FOREIGN EQUIPMENT!
 

joispoi

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Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
1,284
Location
Connecticut
:drinkup foreign cars too & FOREIGN EQUIPMENT!

I don't have a problem with foreign equipment or cars as long as they come from countries that reciprocate free trade. Japan is another nation with one sided trade laws. How many Japanes car factories are in the USA? How many US car factories are in Japan(or even cars for that matter)?
 

Speedpup

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Messages
1,214
Location
New York
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President and all else that needs done!
I don't have a problem with foreign equipment or cars as long as they come from countries that reciprocate free trade. Japan is another nation with one sided trade laws. How many Japanes car factories are in the USA? How many US car factories are in Japan(or even cars for that matter)?

Bingo you have the answer the USA is the dumping ground for the world. Bob Lutz from GM said GM could not build a plant in Japan if they wanted to. They suck! They block US beef and rice and a million other products in Japan. They block US auto part sales in Japan.
 

John White

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Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
214
Location
Newark, Ohio
I am not nessiarly anti union. But I think the days of "Joe the Joker" walking into a factory and really have no skills, and start making $15 to $20 a hour just because it is a union job, are slowely comming to a end. There are many skilled construction trades men who just barley make that. As I said I dont mind paying a little more for a good american product that will last. Look at the quality of some of the Japenise cars. In 1954 I bought a American Flyer bycycle. I worked over a year (I was a kid) picking up coke bottles along the road, sellling fire wood.) Dad made $48. a week then. The bike cost $55. I rode it for several years, then when went into the Army, my brothers rode it. At todays inflation rate that same bike would be close to $400. I dont want to pay $400 for a bike for my grand child to ride, just because it is union made and American made. So China unfortunately has givem us many products that we could not afford otherwise. But I think we need to come down off our high horse and see that we cant continue to put people on welfare, with all the freebies, because they wont work for a reasonable affordable wage. Years ago I would have two or three boys a week stop by my business, wanting to know if they could mow the lot, sweep the shop floor, wash the trucks, windows, paint, any thing to get a couple of dollars, (and if wasnt for a joint or crack). Now kids and grown ups have completely lost their work ethic. Most jobs I have taken in life, I never asked what it paid. I was happy they even gave me a job. Here is a is a example of what happened to me some time ago. Wife and I, decided to down size and sell our house. We bought two acres and with my equipt. developed it and started bulding our own house. There are some things I can do and some I cant. Our provious house I did the dry wall myself and a good bit of the bulding but on this house we were sort of on a time schedule and I had to run my full time job. When it came time for the dry wall. I contacted three dry wall co. that I know of and they never called back. I contacted two different dry wall men that were laid off and had no work. I offered to pay them the going rate. Neither was intersted because it might mess up their welfare and food stamps. I finally seen a ad in the local shopper of a drywall hanger. I called him, he came out the next day, gave me a price. I called him the next day and said go to it. I was just glad to find any one who would do it. A day later at 7 in the morning two vans and a truck with drywall showed up. Out piled about 10 Mexicans. Plugged their radio in and turned up the Mexican music. I said "oh crap, what have I got myself into". I went on to work, come home at night, all the drywall was hung. Next day, it was all taped and spackeled. Next two days was sanded and cleaned up. One fellow who could speak a little "spinglish" wanted to know if there were any big horse farms that needed help. He said he would work for free if they would provide him a horse stall to stay in. I am not defending what I did or the way they live. I just admire a man who rather work, that live off the freebies.
 

Msintensus

Banned
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Apr 28, 2010
Messages
7
Location
New York
Companies selling Chinese products and equipment should be ashamed of themselves. They are profiting off of taking cash out of our local economies, which will NEVER return. The customer saves a few bucks, the carpet-bagging vendor makes his margin on blood money and local economy is undermined because money that would have cycled through the system if a domestic product had been built has been removed from the game....permanently. Save money today on a purchase, but then find out that nobody can afford your services because nobody has enough money. The current state of the economy is a direct of the trade imbalance. We CANNOT afford this cheap crap that China is dumping on us.

In the heavy machinery business I must say that hardly any business is done locally or at least for us. We do much more business overseas to Europe and South America then we do in the US, as time passes our markets are only going to keep getting more globalized which means companies in the US are only going to continue to get hurt if they don't find a viable way to compete. We use Cummins engines and many other reputable brands in our machines which are not knock offs and we have the parts to support our machine network. In fact John Deere and CAT even have machines being manufactured in the same plant as our XCMG machines in China.

Just thought id shed some light
 

joispoi

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
1,284
Location
Connecticut
Make no mistake. China is destroying the European economy just as quickly as it is destroying the US economy. Just because you sell overseas more than you do within the USA, it does not lessen the impact of the damage caused by business models such as yours. This already IS a global economy. Whether you're drawing the money from within the USA, Europe or South America you're still pulling money out of the "free market" and sending it away forever.

The ONLY way that US and European manufacturers can compete with China's prices would be to (or get the government to):
1. Abolish minimum wage
2. Abolish OSHA and it's respective European equivalents
3. Eliminate workman's compensation insurance (if somebody gets hurt or dies, there are plenty of replacements available.
4. Allow workers to sleep in the factories since they won't be paying them enough to afford any type of housing.
5. Block all lawsuits and thereby eliminating the need for insurance.
6. Turn a blind eye towards patent infringement.....paying for R&D is foolish when you can just pirate it.
7. Implement government subsidies so that they can sell their products overseas for less money than it actually costs them to produce said products.

When will the Western world ever come to their senses and make the adjustments needed to compete with China's prices?

I hope you're making a stinking fortune off your sales. It better be doing something fantastic for you to be worth all the damage it's causing to the rest of us. :mad:
 

Msintensus

Banned
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Apr 28, 2010
Messages
7
Location
New York
Here's the thing though who says they have to compete with china's prices? Cat ect. all have features and quality standards that are obviously above the Chinese so I would expect to pay more for their machine. There will always be consumers who will never even consider a Chinese machine and then there are some like in Latin America who can not afford Cat prices so they start looking at our options.

Blame us if you wish but I'm still yet to see any serious contractor with a fleet of Chinese machines.
 

Speedpup

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Jul 6, 2007
Messages
1,214
Location
New York
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President and all else that needs done!
Here's the thing though who says they have to compete with china's prices? Cat ect. all have features and quality standards that are obviously above the Chinese so I would expect to pay more for their machine. There will always be consumers who will never even consider a Chinese machine and then there are some like in Latin America who can not afford Cat prices so they start looking at our options.

Blame us if you wish but I'm still yet to see any serious contractor with a fleet of Chinese machines.

I never saw a Japanese TV in the early 60's either.
 
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