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FAE/Loftness mulching head

Iron Horse

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I don't know if Iron Wolf do a smaller unit either . I meant that the one pictured would do the complete task with no follow up machinery .

That head you speak of , cutting power to the drum when it is lifted would be about as handy as a hip pocket in a pair of underpants . It would be nice lifting it to mulch something off the ground , a fallen tree head etc. and the drum dies :rolleyes: .
 

Randy88

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That unit had a lever tray under it that followed the contour of the ground and when it came off the ground it had a cable mechanism that ran an oil diverter to kill power to the head if I remember and as I told the salesman nice idea and a lot of nice engineering now get rid of it and lets see what the machine will do, you couldn't back up with the head on the ground either if I recall or something strange like that, the salesman said he needed customer imput and was thankfull for my ideas and thoughts and I never heard from him again, it did a nice job and had power and was built ok but needed a lot of testing and refining I thought but it had potential. Often times the person designing these machines is sitting in an office somewhere and all this stuff looks good on paper and the numbers come out and all the specs make it practical but after the lawyers and legal staff and sales get done with it for our lawsuit happy world the end product is something we users scratch our head and say " you've gotta be kidding me " and then we walk away thinking my 5 year old could come up with a better idea than that. I looked at an attachment for a skid steer last year that the manufacturer had designed the entire machine and it had gearboxes, hydraulic motors, valving all the usuall stuff and then some and when I cornered him I found out nothing was off the shelf parts and he even went far enough that no part on it could be sold to anyone but him and if you needed a motor rebuilt all the components inside including seals were specially built for him and only him, he even had sae mounts changed no other motor in the world would fit into his unit, now thats a good idea for the consumer, every seal bolt and nut had to be purchased through his company for repacement parts, that does a lot of good for me when I'm 1000 miles away on a saturday afternoon and need a part so I'm up and going on Monday again, I'm shocked he didn't get a new hose thread made for him so you had to buy hydraulic hoses from him too and he was bold enough to tell me he had considered it but was looking for a company to deal with that issue too. I guess that takes the common sense out of the average moron trying to fix his own machine and locate parts from any hydraulic supplier or have a close by shop repair it for you so you can keep working. I think all these companies have lost sight of whats important, offer the customer a good dependable product that they are happy with and they'll come back and buy more and its gone to this is what we have to offer and nobody else has anything better and we are only gouging you on a few key components and everyone else gets you on other things so just live with it and shut up if you don't buy it 10 others will. " Its got nothing to do with customer satisfaction or ease of installing replacement parts or parts availability it involves company profitability," and thats a direct quote from a company rep I delt with who was trying to sell me a $150,000 machine one time, I'd at least have to give him credit for honesty.
 

deniscimafinc

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Apr 22, 2008
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Roxton Falls, QC
Yes, Iron Wolf makes a model for skid steer. See:
www.ironwolf.com/mulcher

Of course, to me, this solution has the same problem as any solution designed to cope with both rocks and trees: requires a lot of power, not efficient at mulching trees. Using pointed rock teeth like theirs is good if you have to make a path in heavily rocky conditions and need to both crush rocks and trees at the same time. Other than that, for strictly mulching vegetation, I feel it's as logical to use these tools as using a mining pick to knock down a tree. It can be done, it's just that axes are more the kind of tool I'd rather go with. :D

I know it's not the way many people think, but, to me, whatever front-mount you use, it should be kept for nicer terrain conditions. For rocky conditions, an excavator-mount is more appropriate (better view, more control, can clear vegetation cover before going close to ground and avoid rocks...). But I understand excavators are more expensive per hp than skid steers, so the contractor doing clearing only from time to time will prefer to go with a skid steer solution, even if not as effective as dedicated solutions can be.

As far as parts availability, I agree with you, Randy. Some companies are supposedly specialized in making mulching machines or attachments, yet they want to make a living at selling standard and common stuff like bolts and washers. Probably the kind of businesses run by MBA's who think about money only. Note that some customers will still prefer to buy bolts and washers from the manufacturer, so if anything fails, then they can sue the manufacturer :rolleyes:

You mentioned something about cost per hour in your first post. It's important that peoples come to consider different solutions based on their cost per hour, and then their cost per area cleared. If one's cost per hour is 50% higher than the competitor, but it can do twice the production, isn't that one solution the best? Ok, I oversimplify, yet it's good to see that you're actually aware of the importance of cost per hour, and not just the price tag to buy the head... ;)

And when calculating cost of operation, it's good also to consider:
  • bolts, nuts, washers replacement;
  • bearing replacement;
  • seals replacements;
  • even maybe the rotor, and the hydraulic motor replacement;
  • depreciation of the machine;
  • financing costs to buy the machine.

Then you can calculate a much more realistic cost of operation per hour. And then per acre cleared.

Just to give you numbers I know:
The estimated cost of operation per hour of our DAF-180D, which was* priced at 30500$ USD and designed for +/- 75 hp skid steers, is 22.10$ USD (including everything mentioned above). Its estimated cost per acre cleared is between 60$ and 89$.

In comparison, the estimated cost of operation of our largest excavator-mount DAH-150E, which costs easily around 45000$ USD without installation and is designed for 130 hp excavators and bigger, is 15.78$ USD. The estimated cost per acre cleared varies between 53$ to 80$.

Lawsuit-happy-world notice: these estimates are not promises, actual results may vary, my lawyer is rich, etc...

I say the DAF-180D was priced, because it's no longer available in Canada or the US using our actual technology.


So, skid-steer-mount or excavator-mount? It will depend on the kind of work you need to do, and the number of hours you expect to work each year.


Good luck!



Frederic Denis
DENIS CIMAF Inc.
www.deniscimaf.com
 

Randy88

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Thanks, I called ironwolf and they are sending me a packet of info, didn't sound like they had a lot of smaller units out though maybe a handfull, Yes we already have an excavator mounted head we are using and as for the 130hp, bring it up to size a little, we have a 275hp powerpack dedicated to the head on my machine and we eat trees all day long up to and in excess of 4 ft diameter and am looking for a toy to chase sticks the big one spits out and do clean up so to speak, it'll spit out limbs and chuncks and if it catches hold just right chuck them up to 100 ft and its a pain tracking back to suck up one limb and track back to doing bigger stuff again, anything it'll spit out I figured can be chewed up with the skidsteer unit and save time and times money and productivity. Thats about all I ever intented for the skidsteer unit in the first place, the smaller units aren't quite what I'm looking for but until someone comes up with something better its about all thats out there for speed and convience for cleanup type work. Yes once you sit in an excavator unit its hard to go back to a smaller skidsteer type unit but I have help that can sit in one and run that. They say necessity is the mother of invention and maybe with some thought and now a need who knows maybe there will be something different that comes of it all.
 

Iron Horse

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Well , i just watched all the video's of the 10' wide Iron Wolf on a high track Cat . Although it could go into the soil and take on rocks and frozen soil , it did not impress me . Not once did they take on a tree bigger than sappling size and even then it was slow . I'd hate to be paying by the hour to clear the light scrub they were in the video's . Surely someone makes a machine that can take on a man sized tree and bush . As for the small unit on the Positrack , well i was squirming in my seat just watching it slowly eat some garden hedges .
 

HeyUvaVT

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Jan 18, 2007
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Iron Wolf does nothing for me...the DENIS CIMAF heads do not require any powerpacks on the excavators..thats half the appeal...they mulch as well or better than anything else out there and at the end of the day if you need to do dirt work the next day un-hook the lines and take the head off...hook up your bucket and/or thumb and away you go!
 

bill5362

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Odd man out

After reading all of the posts on here looks like I'm the only one who like the loftness. I purchased a loftness Carbbide cutter g2 last year, I tried the fecon but after trying both I like more about the G2. We haven't had any problems with ours, and put about 250 hrs on it, teeth seem to be wearing nicely. Bill
 

deniscimafinc

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Apr 22, 2008
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Loftness machines are actually good machines, from what I've heard. It's actually a brand I recommend to those shopping for a commercial-grade mulcher (by opposition to an industrial-grade but more expensive one, like, say, ours... ;) )


Frederic Denis
DENIS CIMAF Inc.
www.deniscimaf.com
 

australian pete

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clearing contractor.
If i were in your position and had the work i would buy an Iron Wolf mulcher . All the others are just toys from what ive seen . They take way to long to do the task and fall apart on a regular basis . It's a hard thing to find a machine that can take on scrub as there are so many facets to the job , standing timber in all sizes , fallen timber of all sizes , rocks , gullies , stumps , roots with dirt and rocks mixed in etc . The Iron Wolf eats it all and leaves a presentable non erosion layer behind it .
do you know how much that unit is reg ? looks impressive.
 

Iron Horse

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G'day Pete , from memory , 480K for the head and powerpack + the carrier . I think if they had a mixture of flat chisel teeth as well as the round stone picks on the drum it would be better . Round stone picks IMO are not the optimum shape for mulching timber , they would be trying to split the timber into strips instead of chipping . Have a look at the videos posted by DC , they load quickly .
 

australian pete

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G'day Pete , from memory , 480K for the head and powerpack + the carrier . I think if they had a mixture of flat chisel teeth as well as the round stone picks on the drum it would be better . Round stone picks IMO are not the optimum shape for mulching timber , they would be trying to split the timber into strips instead of chipping . Have a look at the videos posted by DC , they load quickly .
wow, not cheap,i had a look at the videos, like you say not impressive on trees, dont think there would be much work for that unit in australia.
 

Randy88

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I also got the video of the iron wolf, not real impressed and when he told me he had only a handfull of units out, I wasn't surprised, looked at the tushogg and ran one last week, a used one for sale, a real used on all beat up and in sad shape and when I looked around at all the other stuff he had I'd say it was well tested, mixed feelings on the unit it had good points and bad didn't get shook up enough to order a new one so I'm still looking at all the others, nobody seems to know how the cupped cutters work only the pointed cutters, iron wolf said if I came to the factory 1000 plus miles they MIGHT get one out to run to show me, I'd say the killer instinct wasn't there for the salesman, and by the price wasn't surprised they did't have a lot of units out, ruled out fecon and rayco so whats left???
 
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Iron Horse

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http://www.ironwolf.com/700b/ Iron Wolfs latest machine . They really should get a pro to take the video . I'd hate to be paying $300 per hour at the speed this machine seems to plug along at . It is obviously a very tough mulching head to stick it's face into the rocks , but the soil would just dissapear at the first sign of rain if it was disturbed to this extent . I still hav'nt seen one eat a man sized tree , what gives ?
 

australian pete

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clearing contractor.
http://www.ironwolf.com/700b/ Iron Wolfs latest machine . They really should get a pro to take the video . I'd hate to be paying $300 per hour at the speed this machine seems to plug along at . It is obviously a very tough mulching head to stick it's face into the rocks , but the soil would just dissapear at the first sign of rain if it was disturbed to this extent . I still hav'nt seen one eat a man sized tree , what gives ?
i think the problem with them is that they are trying to be all things for all applications, EG. grinding soil, rocks and trees. i think jobs for them would be limited, why would you want to disturb the ground to that extent ?
 
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Randy88

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The tushogg tries the same approach, chew it up and mix it into the ground, the guys that ran it claimed they tried not to run it into the dirt because it was hard on teeth and they wanted the mulch left on the ground for erosion control, just when they wanted to chew up stumps would they dig into the dirt but then added when it rained it washed off the dirt and left the stump exposed anyhow, if it was a big stump they came in with a stump grinder anyhow, and as the one guy put it if we liked it why would we be selling it? They claimed they have owned them all over the years and were'nt impressed with any of them except the disc style but they we're only good up to two inch material and thats it. They were not impressed with ironwolf at all but wouldln't say much about them othe than they were the highest price of the junk on the market and thats all I got out of them. They were pushing instead a whole tree chipper and put a small feller buncher on a skid steer and cut the trees up to about 12 inches and feed them into a chipper put a stump grinder attachment on the skidsteer and grind stumps and if they wanted erosion control then spread the chips back out. Somewhere that just got real expensive I told them but then they came back with you also have all the attachments to do a variety of jobs and do them well instead of one attachment that doesn't do anythng very well, I guess they do have a point but still thats now 100 grand plus instead of 30 grand or less. They also stated these attachments were ment for 5inch or less material and were never intended for bigger trees and when they upsized them in order to get them to eat them they had to mix them into the dirt to hide the poor quality cut they make, they had no idea who would buy one of the bigger units and for what purpose, pipelines, powercompanies, developers, state and local agencies, business's and homeowners don't like the end result so as they put it whos left? Their opinion was don't buy any mulching attachment that can dig into the dirt period. Your supposed to be eliminating the brush and small trees not tilling the entire site with a garden tiller, the comsumer wants the grass to remain intact as much as possible and hold the dirt from wahing not dig it up and leave it to wash.
 

deniscimafinc

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i think the problem with them is that they are trying to be all things for all applications, EG. grinding soil, rocks and trees [...]

[...] Their opinion was don't buy any mulching attachment that can dig into the dirt period. Your supposed to be eliminating the brush and small trees not tilling the entire site with a garden tiller, the comsumer wants the grass to remain intact as much as possible and hold the dirt from wahing not dig it up and leave it to wash.

I couldn't agree more :)

Which leads to, if you need to mulch in rocky conditions, might be good to consider going with an excavator-mount before jumping head first with a front-mount.


Frederic Denis
DENIS CIMAF Inc.
www.deniscimaf.com
 

australian pete

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clearing contractor.
it seems the 3 of us agree that the , rock,dirt,tree mulcher is a waste of time, does any one know of a practical use for them ? particuarly considering how expensive they are.
 

jamesn

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Aug 22, 2009
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29
Location
texas
Occupation
forestry mulching
Does anyone know the difference in the various mulching heads available for the ASV 100, i know of /fae,loftness,bradco what other brands are available and whar are rhe differences ie quality,longevity,maintenance, teeth cost, any info would be appreciated, thanks

go with a fecon head, you will love it, fae heads leave the mulch in long stringy pieces, seppi, is no good, cimaff costs too much for new teeth and you dont get too many hours from a set of cimaff teeth.

i am a operator of forestry equipment. i have over 15 years mulching exp.i can operate, barko, hydro-ax, franklin, bron, tiger cat skidsteers, i am familiar with fecon, seppi, fae, cimaff heads, i have done seismac, r.o.w. reclaimation, commercial, residential mulching. i can run gps. i am seeking employment, i can/will travel. i live north of houston. if anybody has/needs a operator with good skills at forestry mulching please call me at 281-659-9062, my name is james
 

jamesn

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Aug 22, 2009
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texas
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forestry mulching
any one needing a good forestry mulcher operator? i have 15 years experience in mulching. i have and can run barko, hydro-ax, franklin, tigercat, bron, gyro-track, rayco, skid steers. i have done seismac mulching, r.o.w. mulching, reclaimation, residential, commercial mulching. i know how to run gps. i am familiar with fecon, fae, cimaf, seppi, loftness heads. i know how to maintain a machine. i am in texas but willing to travel. contact me at 281-659-9062 my name is james
 
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