Late model truck totalled

[dieseldog5.9]

Can't get frame rails right now, I called PG Adams they are working remote, not sure what that means, had to leave a message, but 2 weeks later no return call.

 

[Truck Shop]

Can't get frame rails right now

Sure you can--HW Metals Portland Ore. Better price Too. They can form continuous up to 60'x 5/8"
grade 80 or 100. You punch the holes.

 

[John C.]

What are they all going to be worth when Tier 0 and Tier 1 engines are either prohibited or no parts are available?

 

[Truck Shop]

What are they all going to be worth when Tier 0 and Tier 1 engines are either prohibited or no parts are available?

I'm glad you brought that up John, because some think it either won't/can't happen. But what will put a end
to them is when the supply of used rebuildable blocks dry up. With the demand right now Cummins and Cat
Blocks and heads are being used up at a much faster rate. A block that hasn't already been run to the limit
on machine work is getting hard to find. When the big push for glider kits hit 10 years ago complete engine
cores had a standing offer before those even hit the salvage yards. Finding a useable Series 60 14L block
is getting tough, most have had the counter bores cut twice already, same with Cummins and Cat. A friend
was looking for a head for his rubber band Cat Challenger {ex cat mechanic} zero heads in the system for
his old challenger. Plus Cummins no longer supports any Big Cam engines and it won't be long and support
for the N14 will slow to a crawl. To deck, cut counter bores and machine for lower press fit liners is $2,600
at B&G Machine Seattle.

 

[dieseldog5.9]

Sure you can--HW Metals Portland Ore. Better price Too. They can form continuous up to 60'x 5/8"
grade 80 or 100. You punch the holes.

Would they ship across the country?

New Hampshire is the "Live Free or Die" State, and we take it somewhat seriously, guessing we will be the last ones to require Tier # Emissions.
Every state around us has legalized Marihuana, Not gonna happen here any time soon.

 

[Truck Shop]

Just to enforce my point about running old stuff. This engine I just built and sold is going in a 1978 K100
Kenworth cab over that was bought site unseen for a gross amount of money. Plus it didn't even run.
By the time he gets done with this truck, paint, engine, trans, rear ends, tires, exhaust, wheels, interior
plus redoing the electrical system and all hoses with radiator-$140,000. My engine with freight is $18,000.

 

[Truck Shop]

The Insurance company still hasn't decided if this truck of ours with a 150,000 on it 2021 will be totaled
or not, going on two months plus now.

 

[Truck Shop]

Would they ship across the country?

I don't know why they wouldn't.

 

[Birken Vogt]

My engine with freight is $18,000.

Is that not obscenely cheap?

 

[Birken Vogt]

There are several foundries now making small block and big block GM V8 engines from scratch basically. I wonder if there is not enough demand out there for engines that run and keep running that they could not tool up for Cummins blocks and heads. Wonder what the ratio of working truckers to hot rod car guys is. But I know a lot of these big blocks go into generators and alternative fuel vehicles as well.

I'm glad you brought that up John, because some think it either won't/can't happen. But what will put a end
to them is when the supply of used rebuildable blocks dry up. With the demand right now Cummins and Cat
Blocks and heads are being used up at a much faster rate. A block that hasn't already been run to the limit
on machine work is getting hard to find. When the big push for glider kits hit 10 years ago complete engine
cores had a standing offer before those even hit the salvage yards. Finding a useable Series 60 14L block
is getting tough, most have had the counter bores cut twice already, same with Cummins and Cat. A friend
was looking for a head for his rubber band Cat Challenger {ex cat mechanic} zero heads in the system for
his old challenger. Plus Cummins no longer supports any Big Cam engines and it won't be long and support
for the N14 will slow to a crawl. To deck, cut counter bores and machine for lower press fit liners is $2,600
at B&G Machine Seattle.

 

[crane operator]

Would there be patent or such protections that would keep a company from making "CAT" 3406 blocks, 12.7 detroit, or "Cummins" 855 blocks?

 

[Hallback]

No, if so Dart & Brodix would be fukt.

 

[colson04]

Would there be patent or such protections that would keep a company from making "CAT" 3406 blocks, 12.7 detroit, or "Cummins" 855 blocks?

Not anymore. Most patents are only good for 20 years.

I'm sure the lack profit potential of producing old technology blocks/castings with limited demand stops foundries more than anything. Also, those old design blocks dont meet tier 4 emissions, all they could do is make castings labeled for repair of existing engines. I love the idea of an independent foundry making castings for old school engines, tractors, equipment, etc to keep them around as a viable alternative to brand new. But molds are damned expensive to make and need to produce a lot of castings to justify the cost of making the molds. Along with every other part of the process.

 

[Truck Shop]

New Big Cam heads can be bought-and those are made in China. $1,000 bucks a copy with freight.
Then your pushing the price of a single Cat Head. Plus those old engines are push rod not OHC and
have many more wear points. Can't get the fuel mileage out of those old designs that can be had
with low rpm computer controlled engines of today.

Is that not obscenely cheap?

No I doubled my money. If you want to sell it has to be priced to sell.

 

[colson04]

China is darn good at copying other people's work, but so are American companies. When I worked for Cat at the Tech Center in 2007, they were dissecting competitors CTL undercarriages and systematically measuring them with a CMM machine. Then they were generating 3D models to play with in a modeling software and running various tests on, trying to see whose undercarriage was better. Their ultimate goal was to take the best bits and create the best CTL undercarriage for their future machines. I don't doubt for a second that their competitors were doing the same thing.

As for cloning old blocks, it could be done, but someone would have a hard time making money at it compared to running current model production parts.

 

[dieseldog5.9]

I would think there would be money in C15 3406E blocks, there was a mad dash around here when a local dealer was building gliders, guys were pulling Cat engines out and selling them to the dealer.

The way new engines have been for the last 15years, seems to be driving these prices up. I have a friend locally who has Ventilated Cummins iISX engines on pallets and random trucks with C15 donors ready to replace them around the yard.

 

[Truck Shop]

The Chinese geared up with later machining capabilities. Some of the machine work is
better than ours.

 

[John C.]

Manufacturing new old engine designs is prohibited by federal law. As each new Tier rating came on line, it shut off the supply of replacement engines and required that they be destroyed. Anyone can built an old NTC 855 block and make an engine out of it. They just can't sell and or run it on the highways. Maybe China can cast up a couple of thousand blocks and export them to this country but that would be shut off at the ports when word got out. And the people who would report them are the OEMs. The current situation is by design.

 

[Truck Shop]

Correct.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I was thinking block as service part. Block too worn out, at rebuild time, replace with new block. Transfer everything else over after refurbishing. How is that any different than replacing a head or crankshaft?