Right To Repair EO

[wlhequipment]

I’m not looking to make this political. Just don’t ok?

I’m wondering if / how the executive order signed back in July of last year has effected anyone of us? I’ve been watching the right to repair thing for awhile now, and as a tiny independent operation, it has implications for me. If I can get the software to work on JD equipment, that opens up a possible revenue stream. Can we get Service Advisor now? Does a license cost $50K? What are some of you guys seeing out there?

 

[Birken Vogt]

I'm pretty sure Deere and others just ignored it. Or did something meaningless and lied that it was complying. I can't seem to find that news story at the moment.

 

[John C.]

Right to repair is kind of a funny thing when it comes to Deere. Right to repair came from the after market electronics industry so they could fix a stereo or some other piece of consumer goods. The farmers jumped on Deere with it because of Deere's screwball position that only they could touch anything electronic on a machine that they produced. I have a logging client with a fleet of Hitachi excavators that are handled by the Deere dealer who shut off their customer troubleshooting software. I don't know if that was a Deere thing or a Dealer thing. The forestry side of the issue didn't seem to be a problem until a few months ago but may be going the way of the ag industry. I don't see anything less than a court case to change Deere's practice of denying access.

Just to play devils advocate, what I believe the farmers want is access to bump up horsepower thereby possibly putting Deere in the cross hairs of government regulations for exceeding pollution standards. The rest of the manufacturers prevent access to their engine performance algorithms to prevent that. It is my understanding that Deere is using pollution standards to prevent basic troubleshooting on their tractors and combines. Does anyone know if that is true?

 

[Birken Vogt]

The official line for those in favor of right to repair, regarding Deere, is that they will have breakdowns during harvest and other critical times, and need help diagnosing. Then they replace some part. Then the computer needs to be reset/recalibrated to accept said new part, or to tell it that the fault condition is fixed.

Since they can't get the software they need, they are at the mercy of the dealer, who is always several weeks out. Several weeks means they could be bankrupt.

I think the increased HP thing is a straw man set up by Deere and similar, although it certainly is possible. But some of this stuff is things like recalibrating position sensors in lift arms on the back of the tractor. Everything is run by a computer these days, not just the engine. Besides that, even with full dealer software on any normal level, you are allowed to do things like reset DPF and injector codes, but not to re-rate the HP. That is, and will remain, secret squirrel stuff.

The main focus is giving the average Joe the ability to do normal repairs, and then reset some sort of software lockout that happened because of the failure.

 

[mg2361]

Can we get Service Advisor now?

Yes you can. Service Advisor can be purchased from the dealer, which involves filling out a Customer Service Advisor 5 request form. The dealer then also decides the level of access. Manuals only or connectivity ability. The connection ability will not allow controller programming. That can only be done by the dealer. You could look into EPC Catalogs as well (see link).

https://www.epcatalogs.com/john-deere-service-advisor-5.2-2017-construction-and-foresty-equipment/

Just to play devils advocate, what I believe the farmers want is access to bump up horsepower thereby possibly putting Deere in the cross hairs of government regulations for exceeding pollution standards.

Exactly the issue. For years you could perform dealer level troubleshooting with aftermarket programs like Texa with the exception of controller programming.

 

[John C.]

Can you do that on Ag tractors and combines?

 

[wlhequipment]

IIRC, Deere's initial stance was, "we want to protect our brand", and it's since changed to "we need to protect the environment", supposedly against horsepower happy hillbillies who want to roll coal while harvesting. I may have that backwards - they may have opened with the environmental thing, then moved to the brand thing. While I am quite certain there is a portion of their customers who just want to watch their pistons burn, most of the folks I have run into just want their machine to work. I've turned people away because I can't touch a JD. I also hate messing with computers and codes and all that in general, so I'm not terribly inclined to that anyway. I'll try to stay abreast of it

 

[terex herder]

Also, conceited green is concerned with vehicle speed. Machines like IVT tractors and hydrostatic combines are capable of much higher ground speeds than their software limits. Deere charges something like $20K extra for a tractor that will go 32 mph vs. 26 mph. The difference merely being a software setting. Don't want that revenue stream to dry up.

deere employees are generally some of the most conceited people I've ever met.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Just a side note. My Deere dealer, Valley Truck and Tractor was recently bought out by Papé. Valley was always pretty good to me. I wonder how Papé will be.

 

[John C.]

Have they taken over the whole west coast now. Washington, Oregon, Northern California before, how far south now?

 

[Truck Shop]

Cummins is playing the same sort of game only they approach it from the warranty end. For example if
you buy a turbocharger from Cummins for lets say a ISX, said turbo cost is $6,700 with no warranty.
If a independent shop installs it a 90 day warranty if Cummins installs it then it has a national warranty
of 2 years. On most parts for the owner there is no warranty if he installs.

 

[heymccall]

I have the option that most don't have, and that is to never buy a Deere again.
I won't miss them.

 

[Truck Shop]

Have they taken over the whole west coast now. Washington, Oregon, Northern California before, how far south now?

Around here on tractor it's Pape', Equipment Western States.

 

[Truck Shop]

I have the option that most don't have, and that is to never buy a Deere again.
I won't miss them.

Several around here switched to Case IH.

 

[funwithfuel]

We have seen here, time after time. My xxxx is throwing a code or, I believe my xxxx ain't working right. I wanna defeat this or that. I want to trick the computer. Instead of troubleshooting and correcting root cause, they want to change parts to older more simple design, that won't tell them something is wrong. It won't respond the way they want. But the dealer and mfr are jag- offs because they didn't authorize the software access.
The other risk is, some of these farmers don't know what they are doing. They may start an uncontrolled fire by resetting a DPF trying to regenerate when it's already saturated. There's so much that could go wrong.

 

[heymccall]

Caterpillar won't let me do anything emissions but, I have no problem with that. I can do everything else.

 

[AzIron]

Caterpillar won't let me do anything emissions but, I have no problem with that. I can do everything else.

Dealers make or break that my dealer is not the most helpful with anything for cat

Now the deere dealer treats me ok if I call in for simple information otherwise its bring it in but I have been beating on deere for 2 years about reliability and in the last group I participated in out of 6 guys 2 of us wanted access to service advisor without paying an arm and a leg while the other 4 didn't care cause they make the dealer do all there service work they wont touch it so its 2 different mindsets

Self performed repair work took a backseat in construction with electronics and equipment adopted the consume and discard approach to iron so the market is geared to that and if your under 10 machines that doesnt leave a lot of money in your pocket to always have payments

 

[Birken Vogt]

We are a long way from any dealer, like an hour or more on high speed roads. A lot of Deere in my industry (power gen). I have yet to come to the job where I could not fix it by hook or by crook, but the hours I spend scratching my head to figure out how to do it without the computer either come out of billable hours or they get billed to the customer, or I guess the third option is to call the dealer mechanic which I have not had to do, yet. I think I may try renting a laptop from one of the third party companies if it comes to that.

 

[hvy 1ton]

Just to play devils advocate, what I believe the farmers want is access to bump up horsepower thereby possibly putting Deere in the cross hairs of government regulations for exceeding pollution standards.

I've been told it's 4 lines of code to change to a different factory fuel map with the right software. I know a farmer that doesn't have the software, but puts a tuner on all his 4WDs. Buys 400's and bumps them up to 600.

 

[Don.S]

My boss has 18 of the 6 series tractors and 3 little deere wheel loaders on the road in the winter. The reason is around here deere keeps the resale the best and there service is far better then anyone else. For us since we push snow its a need it now type of thing so service is the most important.