Big Jake
Member
I got a d3 and i have no complaints.
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who makes the BEST dozer
- Thread starter 9420pullpan
- Start date
Deas Plant
Senior Member
Seat Time.
Hi, Neil D.
The actual amount of seat time is not the REALLY important thing here, Mate. The REALLY important thing is what you achieve with the seat time you do have and how much you learn from it. In 1966, at age 21, I was the youngest operator on the night shift rock crew on the Hammersley Rail Project in Western Australia. When we could finally get our hands on a D9G to put into the last - and biggest - rock cut, it was given to me and I had the least experience in terms of seat time of any of the operators on my shift.
A couple of weeks earlier, I had been sent up the line with a D8 to spread fill from the 12 cu. yd Marion 191M face shovel and 3 x 65 cu. yd, 100 tons capacity Kenworth Dart rear dumps when they excavated 2 smaller cuts as the 12 yd face shovel walked its way from that big cut up to the mine at Mount Tom Price. Nobody ever said anything to me about why I was sent with that crew but I'd guess it had something to with my ability to run a spreading dozer and maintain a fill in good shape. There was no supervision with that crew. There was the shovel operator, 3 dump truck drivers, a spotter and me, and I was the youngest of all of them.
If you're running your own gear and making a go of it, you must have learned something about the game somewhere along the way. Keep doing it while ever it's still FUN.
I don't HAVE a crown, so you can't steal it. However, you can make one of your own for your own personal use by always striving to improve your skills and do the job better, quicker, whatever it might be. If you can see something that looks like a challenge, go for it. You'll hone your skills and learn something from it at the same time.
AtlasRob, I tend to put it another way. If you ever stop learning in this (or any other) game, you're dead from the neck up.
Northart, I have always maintained that a key ingredient in the make-up of a good operator is imagination. If you can't imagine what the finished product should look like, how can you work toward achieving that look? And you usually find that intelligent people have the best imaginations. 'Dumb' operators?
Hi, Neil D.
The actual amount of seat time is not the REALLY important thing here, Mate. The REALLY important thing is what you achieve with the seat time you do have and how much you learn from it. In 1966, at age 21, I was the youngest operator on the night shift rock crew on the Hammersley Rail Project in Western Australia. When we could finally get our hands on a D9G to put into the last - and biggest - rock cut, it was given to me and I had the least experience in terms of seat time of any of the operators on my shift.
A couple of weeks earlier, I had been sent up the line with a D8 to spread fill from the 12 cu. yd Marion 191M face shovel and 3 x 65 cu. yd, 100 tons capacity Kenworth Dart rear dumps when they excavated 2 smaller cuts as the 12 yd face shovel walked its way from that big cut up to the mine at Mount Tom Price. Nobody ever said anything to me about why I was sent with that crew but I'd guess it had something to with my ability to run a spreading dozer and maintain a fill in good shape. There was no supervision with that crew. There was the shovel operator, 3 dump truck drivers, a spotter and me, and I was the youngest of all of them.
If you're running your own gear and making a go of it, you must have learned something about the game somewhere along the way. Keep doing it while ever it's still FUN.
I don't HAVE a crown, so you can't steal it. However, you can make one of your own for your own personal use by always striving to improve your skills and do the job better, quicker, whatever it might be. If you can see something that looks like a challenge, go for it. You'll hone your skills and learn something from it at the same time.
AtlasRob, I tend to put it another way. If you ever stop learning in this (or any other) game, you're dead from the neck up.
Northart, I have always maintained that a key ingredient in the make-up of a good operator is imagination. If you can't imagine what the finished product should look like, how can you work toward achieving that look? And you usually find that intelligent people have the best imaginations. 'Dumb' operators?
Northart
Senior Member
Operator Performance
Hello Deas Plant,
Well I certainly agree with all you have said. But I have to cast another line of thought in here.
The construction world can't wait for the Operators to hone their skills over 30 years or so,or churn over the labor force, just to get a few good ones. The old guys are retiring faster than the replacing generation, leaving an industry shortage. Every company wants highly skilled operators.
Some Operators get there by OJT (On the Job Training), some just plug along , content to be just semiskilled. MSHA is pushing the Training aspect because of Safety. Reducing the Fatalities and accidents.
Then there are the Apprenticeship Programs and Journeyman Upgrade Training programs put on by the Unions. Introductory and advanced.
There are also some private schools and colleges that offer construction courses.
Then there is the GPS,Laser, and all other computer controlled grade tools,designed to increase productivity.
All these are designed to produce a skilled,competent, operator , quicker , than by the old traditional methods. Increasing the population of skilled , competent operators.
As for computers taking the skilled operators work away, I say, due to the increased cost of equipment,fuel,compliance with all the new environmental laws,etc. productivity has to be increased, to maintain an industry. New skills in the use of the computer equipment have to be learned.
Manpower will still be present,
just a different breed of operators skilled in reading,listening,interacting to a computer monitor, versus our old ways of doing things.
Anyway , just some thoughts for the readers.
Hello Deas Plant,
Well I certainly agree with all you have said. But I have to cast another line of thought in here.
The construction world can't wait for the Operators to hone their skills over 30 years or so,or churn over the labor force, just to get a few good ones. The old guys are retiring faster than the replacing generation, leaving an industry shortage. Every company wants highly skilled operators.
Some Operators get there by OJT (On the Job Training), some just plug along , content to be just semiskilled. MSHA is pushing the Training aspect because of Safety. Reducing the Fatalities and accidents.
Then there are the Apprenticeship Programs and Journeyman Upgrade Training programs put on by the Unions. Introductory and advanced.
There are also some private schools and colleges that offer construction courses.
Then there is the GPS,Laser, and all other computer controlled grade tools,designed to increase productivity.
All these are designed to produce a skilled,competent, operator , quicker , than by the old traditional methods. Increasing the population of skilled , competent operators.
As for computers taking the skilled operators work away, I say, due to the increased cost of equipment,fuel,compliance with all the new environmental laws,etc. productivity has to be increased, to maintain an industry. New skills in the use of the computer equipment have to be learned.
Manpower will still be present,
just a different breed of operators skilled in reading,listening,interacting to a computer monitor, versus our old ways of doing things. Anyway , just some thoughts for the readers.
Deas Plant
Senior Member
Skilled Operators.
Hi, Northart.
Cat make the best dozers above D6 size or equivalent - that's just so I don't get hassled for thread-jacking. LOL.
I agree that training is an increasingly important part of creating a good skilled operator. I would guess that DownUnder lags a little behind the U.S. and maybe Canada in that respect. There is no government, union, industry or employer sponsored nation-wide training program that I am aware of. There are a number of independent operator training schools scattered across the country which turn out "operators" with varying degrees of success and acceptability. The industry in general does not seem to have a high opinion of the 'graduates' of these schools.
I suspect that everybody is hoping that somebody else will bite the bullet and start doing something constructive about addressing the problem. Meanwhile, there are less and less truly skilled operators and especially multi-skilled ones, available for a construction/civil engineering industry that is growing reasonably quickly, not to mention all the mines and quarries that are looking for skilled operators as well. There needs to be a shift of thinking among employers so that they start their own in-house training programs to supply their own needs for skilled operators and other staff
It is hard to get employers to invest time and money in training anybody for anything when there is always a risk that, at the end of the training, the trainee will depart for greener pastures. It is equally hard to get across to them that if they train newcomers in the way they want things done, they will have employees who know the company ropes and are more likely to do things the company way - assuming always of course that they pay at least the going rate to their freshly trained employees.
Maybe JD make good small dozers. I don't know. I have not run a JD dozer since about 1996 and that was a 10 year old JD 850. It still ran and handled well but it was/is not the current generation. (See? Still on thread. LOL.)
Hi, Northart.
Cat make the best dozers above D6 size or equivalent - that's just so I don't get hassled for thread-jacking. LOL.
I agree that training is an increasingly important part of creating a good skilled operator. I would guess that DownUnder lags a little behind the U.S. and maybe Canada in that respect. There is no government, union, industry or employer sponsored nation-wide training program that I am aware of. There are a number of independent operator training schools scattered across the country which turn out "operators" with varying degrees of success and acceptability. The industry in general does not seem to have a high opinion of the 'graduates' of these schools.
I suspect that everybody is hoping that somebody else will bite the bullet and start doing something constructive about addressing the problem. Meanwhile, there are less and less truly skilled operators and especially multi-skilled ones, available for a construction/civil engineering industry that is growing reasonably quickly, not to mention all the mines and quarries that are looking for skilled operators as well. There needs to be a shift of thinking among employers so that they start their own in-house training programs to supply their own needs for skilled operators and other staff
It is hard to get employers to invest time and money in training anybody for anything when there is always a risk that, at the end of the training, the trainee will depart for greener pastures. It is equally hard to get across to them that if they train newcomers in the way they want things done, they will have employees who know the company ropes and are more likely to do things the company way - assuming always of course that they pay at least the going rate to their freshly trained employees.
Maybe JD make good small dozers. I don't know. I have not run a JD dozer since about 1996 and that was a 10 year old JD 850. It still ran and handled well but it was/is not the current generation. (See? Still on thread. LOL.)
bear
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2008
- Messages
- 541
- Location
- South Central Kentucky
- Occupation
- Math, Physics, keeping out of trouble and doing od
Might have posted here before
I like the smaller Komatsu's and Deere dozers. As far as larger ones a D series Cat is the ticket. I've used the smaller dozers for pioneering trails and roads for electrical utilities that includes pulling heavy electrical conductor and dragging trucks to where the poles are/will be set. We used them every day doing stuff on rock and dirt, seemed to hold up good did have a hard time with hoses because of trees and roots(never would put guards on). I've used medium sized Cats, Komatsu's, and the odd Deere. The Deere and Komatsu didn't seem to hold up well and the work wasn't very difficult or the terrain very bad. "that's all I have to say 'bout that" (Forrest Gump)
I like the smaller Komatsu's and Deere dozers. As far as larger ones a D series Cat is the ticket. I've used the smaller dozers for pioneering trails and roads for electrical utilities that includes pulling heavy electrical conductor and dragging trucks to where the poles are/will be set. We used them every day doing stuff on rock and dirt, seemed to hold up good did have a hard time with hoses because of trees and roots(never would put guards on). I've used medium sized Cats, Komatsu's, and the odd Deere. The Deere and Komatsu didn't seem to hold up well and the work wasn't very difficult or the terrain very bad. "that's all I have to say 'bout that" (Forrest Gump)
Deas Plant
Senior Member
More on learning.
Hi, AtlasRob.
I have always had the view that you can learn from the 'mugs' as well as the experts. (An 'ex' is either a has-been or an unknown quantity and a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure.) You may not learn how TO do something from the mugs but you can often learn how NOT to do it.
I have also for a long time had the view that it is good to learn from other people's mistakes 'cos it can save the problems, embarrassment, lost time and production and the possible injury of making those mistakes yourself.
And, just so that we stay on thread/topic, the original question that began this thread was, and I quote:
"which manufacture(r) makes the best dozer small to large???" (unquote.)
(I added the '(r)' 'cos 9420Pullpan left the 'r' off the end of 'manufacturer'.)
Now, for my money, there is one tiny minor detail lacking in that question. It doesn't specify whether we are looking at 'horses for courses', i.e. size, suitability and reliability of the machine for the sort of work that it was designed for, or whether we are looking at which manufacturer makes the overall 'BEST' machine.
F'rinstance, you wouldn't put a D11R Carrydozer landscaping around the average suburban house any more than you would put a JD650G stripping overburden in a 5-million-tons-a-year coal mine. BUT, you can compare how each machine performs the work for which it was designed on the basis of some criteria such as, suitability, production, reliability, operator friendliness, operating costs per unit of production and per hour.
So, 9420Pullpan, which is it, please? The overall BEST dozer or the best dozer for the work for which it was designed? AND, while we're at it, are we talking current models or 'of all time'?
Hi, AtlasRob.
Deas, that has got to be one of the best responses to a serious compliment that I have heard in a long time. :notworthy All you young uns take note. As usual he is right 100% :thumbsup There will always be somebody better than you can learn something from. The day you stop learning is the day you need to find another occupation cause you will have just found out you are in the wrong one
I have always had the view that you can learn from the 'mugs' as well as the experts. (An 'ex' is either a has-been or an unknown quantity and a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure.) You may not learn how TO do something from the mugs but you can often learn how NOT to do it.
I have also for a long time had the view that it is good to learn from other people's mistakes 'cos it can save the problems, embarrassment, lost time and production and the possible injury of making those mistakes yourself.
And, just so that we stay on thread/topic, the original question that began this thread was, and I quote:
"which manufacture(r) makes the best dozer small to large???" (unquote.)
(I added the '(r)' 'cos 9420Pullpan left the 'r' off the end of 'manufacturer'.)
Now, for my money, there is one tiny minor detail lacking in that question. It doesn't specify whether we are looking at 'horses for courses', i.e. size, suitability and reliability of the machine for the sort of work that it was designed for, or whether we are looking at which manufacturer makes the overall 'BEST' machine.
F'rinstance, you wouldn't put a D11R Carrydozer landscaping around the average suburban house any more than you would put a JD650G stripping overburden in a 5-million-tons-a-year coal mine. BUT, you can compare how each machine performs the work for which it was designed on the basis of some criteria such as, suitability, production, reliability, operator friendliness, operating costs per unit of production and per hour.
So, 9420Pullpan, which is it, please? The overall BEST dozer or the best dozer for the work for which it was designed? AND, while we're at it, are we talking current models or 'of all time'?
CatSkinner77V
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2007
- Messages
- 228
- Location
- Sperling, Manitoba, CANADA
- Occupation
- Earthmoving business owner
Caterpillar, D8H (46a) and the D8K. The most legendary machines Caterpillar ever built. You can't help but imagine when the Benjimin Holt invented the tracked machine, thats excautly what he had in mind. the D8 that is. Well balanced, put power to the ground like nobody's business, reliable, (theres still likely around 70 percent of them still in service today). They do like thier fuel, and after 14,000 engine hours, (My K has 74,000 frame hours) they can get smoking on you. But hell, I drink and smoke alittle more than I should too. haha.
Who is kidding who here thow, they will move alot of material in an hour, and it takes fuel and wieght to move material. Just my 2 cents, but on a nice calm summer morning or evening I would much rather be on an open cab K or H compared to the fanciest highdrive out there.
Who is kidding who here thow, they will move alot of material in an hour, and it takes fuel and wieght to move material. Just my 2 cents, but on a nice calm summer morning or evening I would much rather be on an open cab K or H compared to the fanciest highdrive out there.
MUDSLINGERS
Member
I Totally AGREE with you (Deas Plant) I love to hear and learn from real operators, and I would love to be on a job with you!! The guy who taught me and now is my boss and still a very good friend, always told me that he did not care if I was 100 years old you still got something to learn, and the older guys that I know that are good operators I could just sit and watch all day. Yea, I might have a dozer now that has a cab and all the glitz, but I really and honestly don't care because I have never had that stuff before.
All I am here to do IS learn and make myself a better dozer operator, and at the age of 29, I know I still have alot of years of learning ahead of me!!! So far I have made myself a fairly good finish dozer hand, and when them older guys call me and want me to come to there job and do dozer work that makes me want to try that much harder and learn that much more!! Anything I can learn from you guys is much more to me than that paycheck at the end of the week!!!!! I take operating as serious as my atv racing and that is SERIOUS!!!
All I am here to do IS learn and make myself a better dozer operator, and at the age of 29, I know I still have alot of years of learning ahead of me!!! So far I have made myself a fairly good finish dozer hand, and when them older guys call me and want me to come to there job and do dozer work that makes me want to try that much harder and learn that much more!! Anything I can learn from you guys is much more to me than that paycheck at the end of the week!!!!! I take operating as serious as my atv racing and that is SERIOUS!!!
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Deas Plant
Senior Member
D9G for me.
Hi, Catskinner77V.
I'd take a Cat D9G for the same reasons that you've given for the D8H or K. The D9H was a good machine to operate but a little more prone to drive train troubles than the G series, due to the extra HP. Still, if somebody offered me the ride on one, it would take one very attractive (?)option to get me to turn it down. LOL.
Hi, Catskinner77V.
I'd take a Cat D9G for the same reasons that you've given for the D8H or K. The D9H was a good machine to operate but a little more prone to drive train troubles than the G series, due to the extra HP. Still, if somebody offered me the ride on one, it would take one very attractive (?)option to get me to turn it down. LOL.
CatSkinner77V
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2007
- Messages
- 228
- Location
- Sperling, Manitoba, CANADA
- Occupation
- Earthmoving business owner
K and H
Born at the junction and formed to function.... the hammer of the construction gods!!!!
Born at the junction and formed to function.... the hammer of the construction gods!!!!
alan627b
Senior Member
Finishing Can be Hard Work
I have spent this week learning to do my first real finishing dozer work with a D5C. It is very frustrating trying to everything look right, cutting slopes and topsoiling them,working on soft and fairly wet soil that has set since last December!
I've mostly been a scraper operator the last 15 years....and I don't claim to have a "1 tenth eye" but I'm doing the best I can! The old hands sure make it look easy.....Sure would be nice to have some instruction aid around intead of learning it all the hard way....although, some times it pays to be the only guy who shows up for work!
Hopefully, experience will help me learn to be better at planning my moves, but at least I'm better than I was Monday!
Practice, practice...
Alan627b
I have spent this week learning to do my first real finishing dozer work with a D5C. It is very frustrating trying to everything look right, cutting slopes and topsoiling them,working on soft and fairly wet soil that has set since last December!
I've mostly been a scraper operator the last 15 years....and I don't claim to have a "1 tenth eye" but I'm doing the best I can! The old hands sure make it look easy.....Sure would be nice to have some instruction aid around intead of learning it all the hard way....although, some times it pays to be the only guy who shows up for work!
Hopefully, experience will help me learn to be better at planning my moves, but at least I'm better than I was Monday!
Practice, practice...
Alan627b
Deas Plant
Senior Member
Finishing dozer work
Hi, Alan627B.
Have you made an opportunity to check out the tracks rollers and undercarriage on that D5C yet? LOL.
Finishing work with a dozer, even more so than most other dozer work, is about 'feeling' your machine as much as about having an 'eye' for it. Wet material and slopes don't make any of it any easier and the fact that you are working with a lightly-loaded blade most of the time doesn't help either. However, as frustrating as it can be in the early stages of your learning, finishing work can be immensely rewarding when you look back and KNOW that YOU did that eye-pleasing job that you have managed to leave behind you.
It is a definite change from rushing madly around at about '90'(?) miles an hour on a scraper but, in case you haven't yet noticed, (LOL.) it is an entirely different type of work and patience, persistance and having a feel for your machine and an 'educated' eye are the keys to it.
Try to enjoy it anyway.
Hi, Alan627B.
Have you made an opportunity to check out the tracks rollers and undercarriage on that D5C yet? LOL.
Finishing work with a dozer, even more so than most other dozer work, is about 'feeling' your machine as much as about having an 'eye' for it. Wet material and slopes don't make any of it any easier and the fact that you are working with a lightly-loaded blade most of the time doesn't help either. However, as frustrating as it can be in the early stages of your learning, finishing work can be immensely rewarding when you look back and KNOW that YOU did that eye-pleasing job that you have managed to leave behind you.
It is a definite change from rushing madly around at about '90'(?) miles an hour on a scraper but, in case you haven't yet noticed, (LOL.) it is an entirely different type of work and patience, persistance and having a feel for your machine and an 'educated' eye are the keys to it.
Try to enjoy it anyway.
Deas Plant, I would say that the main reason you have had a bad run with getting the dealer mechanics in your area is that all the diesel fitters in the area have run off to the mines to make the big bucks. (I left the particular dealership you are talking about to do the same thing). Now I have moved to another mining area in NSW which has a big population around it and the dealer has plenty of people to send out to a field service job, and can send out a dozer specialist if it is a tough one.
I agree it could be a bit of a pain with the labour shortage in SEQ at the moment.
Otherwise, I would say that the Cats cost a bit more but last a bit longer than the Komatsus.
Some operators say the Cats push better while MOST say the Komatsus push better.
Most operators in the mines say that the Cats are a bit smoother to operate.
Mechanics nearly all say the cats are easier to work on but are getting to complex with all the electronics and rubbish getting added on nowadays..
I agree it could be a bit of a pain with the labour shortage in SEQ at the moment.
Otherwise, I would say that the Cats cost a bit more but last a bit longer than the Komatsus.
Some operators say the Cats push better while MOST say the Komatsus push better.
Most operators in the mines say that the Cats are a bit smoother to operate.
Mechanics nearly all say the cats are easier to work on but are getting to complex with all the electronics and rubbish getting added on nowadays..
CatYelloBlooded
Active Member
I've worked on few Komatsu 375's around here and i'd say that the Cat's are much easier to work on. I'll take a D11R with a 3508B any day for that. Sadly, the electronics are coming up on all machines regardless of the brand and its going to be a rough world for all the little computers and emissions devices out there. Not looking forward to 2010!
Firecat11
Active Member
- Joined
- May 6, 2008
- Messages
- 31
- Location
- Northern California
- Occupation
- Registered Civil Engineer / Heavy Earthwork Contra
Komatsu All the Way for Me!!!!
I have to agree that Caterpillar has the best parts and maintenance support BAR NONE!!! I would rather replace a final drive on a high track any day that to have to tear my machines completely apart.
The difficulty is that it all comes at a significant price. At my age I could not afford to replace all of my machines with cat models. That was the reason that I was able to buy the machines that I have and rebuild them to like new condition for the fraction of the cost of a new Cat.
I have ran D3, D4H, D6C,D D7E,G, D8H,K, D8L, D8R, D9L
Pound for pound Komatsu makes their crawlers a little heavier and more horsepower compared to Cats comparable models. Also, the older Komatsu tractors had cummins engines which makes it real easy to work on.
I now have the following:
D3 with pedal steer
D65E dozer w/ ripper 200HP custom built to fight forest fires
D85E dozer w/ ripper 250HP for dozing work
D355A dozer w/ ripper 500HP for deep ripping agricultural soil
:IMO:IMO
I have to agree that Caterpillar has the best parts and maintenance support BAR NONE!!! I would rather replace a final drive on a high track any day that to have to tear my machines completely apart.
The difficulty is that it all comes at a significant price. At my age I could not afford to replace all of my machines with cat models. That was the reason that I was able to buy the machines that I have and rebuild them to like new condition for the fraction of the cost of a new Cat.
I have ran D3, D4H, D6C,D D7E,G, D8H,K, D8L, D8R, D9L
Pound for pound Komatsu makes their crawlers a little heavier and more horsepower compared to Cats comparable models. Also, the older Komatsu tractors had cummins engines which makes it real easy to work on.
I now have the following:
D3 with pedal steer
D65E dozer w/ ripper 200HP custom built to fight forest fires
D85E dozer w/ ripper 250HP for dozing work
D355A dozer w/ ripper 500HP for deep ripping agricultural soil
:IMO:IMO
Deas Plant
Senior Member
'Kummagutsa' Vs Cat.
Hi, Firecat11.
You are entitled to your opinions and I respect them. If it works for you, go for it.
How-wevver, one part of your post did tickle me and I quote:
"Pound for pound Komatsu makes their crawlers a little heavier and more horsepower compared to Cats comparable models."
Is it not the case that if one manufacturer's machine is either heavier or lighter and/or more or less powerful than a competitor's machine, then they are not in the same class and thus not comparable?
Most of us have been aware of this 'Kummagutsa' approach to competition for many years now. I personally have also been aware that 'Kummagutsa' machines, with the exception of their excavators, seem to develop slack and wear in all sorts of places while their Cat 'comparable' competition is still 'nizentite'.
Just my 0.02.
Have you had your D355A re-powered? The D355A's that I remember were only 410 hp, which is exactly where the Cat D9H came in.
Hi, Firecat11.
You are entitled to your opinions and I respect them. If it works for you, go for it.
How-wevver, one part of your post did tickle me and I quote:
"Pound for pound Komatsu makes their crawlers a little heavier and more horsepower compared to Cats comparable models."
Is it not the case that if one manufacturer's machine is either heavier or lighter and/or more or less powerful than a competitor's machine, then they are not in the same class and thus not comparable?
Most of us have been aware of this 'Kummagutsa' approach to competition for many years now. I personally have also been aware that 'Kummagutsa' machines, with the exception of their excavators, seem to develop slack and wear in all sorts of places while their Cat 'comparable' competition is still 'nizentite'.
Just my 0.02.
Have you had your D355A re-powered? The D355A's that I remember were only 410 hp, which is exactly where the Cat D9H came in.
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Deas, while that would be true if the difference was significant, the difference referred to here is not enough to make a size class jump. Just enough to be a bit bigger and more powerful. I don't feel it is enough to give one machine an advantage over the other based on size or power alone.
Brian
dirt digger
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2008
- Messages
- 598
- Location
- PA
- Occupation
- pushing dirt, baling hay, and hitting the books
dirt digger
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2008
- Messages
- 598
- Location
- PA
- Occupation
- pushing dirt, baling hay, and hitting the books
Best dozer?
Ifeel it all comes down to the operator any-way I have not heard any mention of the ukes c6 82-30 82-40 etc. I have just arrived on this site and it will take me some time to catch up. seeya By the way pussy cats are best
Ifeel it all comes down to the operator any-way I have not heard any mention of the ukes c6 82-30 82-40 etc. I have just arrived on this site and it will take me some time to catch up. seeya By the way pussy cats are best