Thoughts on this Case 580C

[chavez]

So I'm looking at this 580C now, not sure of the year. It apparently was a one owner machine and the guy died and his wife has it on consignment at an heavy equipment seller. I got to use it for about 45 minutes and there are a few things wrong with it. The meter shows 3200 hours but is not functioning at the moment, a few of the pins are sloppy on the backhoe, swing is the worst, but its the first one I've tried and don't know what is normal for its age. The stow position lock works and there is a pin to lock the swing which the guy said was surprising. Not sure if they go missing or what but there was a storage port in the floor board.

It seems to smoke a little bit (blue) not only out of the exhaust but out of the breather from the top of the engine that exits below. Should I be concerned about this?

I only could find one leak on the loader hose and no pitting on any of the cylinders. It has been repainted this year so it looks nice enough. Oh also it has no brakes there are two master cylinders under the dash and the guy is saying that they need to be rebuilt with new seals and that the originals were shot and leaking.

The front front loader and the back bucket will pick the machine off the ground at an idle.

He will take $10400 and not a penny less. Your thought are welcome and appreciated. One good thing is that he has a crap load of parts. He bought out a case dealer from the other side of the state and has a ton of parts. The only catch is, he won't sell parts to anyone who has not bought a tractor from him. He'll let you use other size buckets if you leave a deposit and I could use a 1 footer at times.

 

[chavez]

More Pics:

 

[JS580SL]

580C is a good machine. what do you want to use it for?

That machine looks good but paint can hide alot. Pins and bushings arnt a big deal to replace. Id be most concerned with the driveline.How well will it push? how does it dig? Id look at a few more machines before settling on that one.

Good luck.

 

[chavez]

It seemed to dig and push fine. I filled the front loader by powering into a large pile of crushed concrete. I also tried all 4 of the gears and the clutch seemed good.

 

[coopers]

Interesting paint job to the say the least...it looks good though. Did you look closely at the metal to make sure there weren't any cracks and make mental notes of any weld on the backhoe? Minor mechanical issues with a machine that old are to be expected, if it were an M or something then leaks and exhaust coming out of the locations you specified would be cause for concern but that's a fairly old machine. But, the price being asked (if the machine is as good as it looks and he says) isn't too unreasonable. Case holds their value very well and those machines don't quit. Like JS580SL mentioned, take a peak around and see what else is out there but do some more trial runs w/ that machine and see how it holds up.

What else have you done with that machine and what else have you looked at on that machine? That bucket looks like it's a 3 footer or something.

Oh, and do you have any more pictures?

Blake
WA

 

[Dustin Mason]

No brakes, eh? That is rather common with these machines. If the master cylinders are leaking and need rebuilt I would assume the slaves do too. If they are not pitted too bad you can save them with a brake hone. Also, if you need to get into the brakes themselves, they are mounted externally on the transaxle, so the whole rear end doesn't have to come apart. They are a dry servo drum/disc combination.

You said something that intrigues me. You mentioned the clutch seemed good. From the looks of the picture you took of the leaky hose, the bottom of the shuttle unit makes me think it is a manual shuttle model with a dry clutch and no torque converter. Is there a clutch pedal on the left, with the brake pedals on the right? If so you have found one of the rarer C models, as most 580C's came with a power shuttle/torque converter drivetrain, and they will have the individual wheel brake pedals to the left with a master brake pedal on the right. Personally, I have no use for a dry clutch model. If that is OK for you so be it. If you are not too familiar with this style of machine I would suggest you try out a power shuttle model to check your preferences. I have not kept up with the value of 580C's but if this dry clutch model is priced similarly to a power shuttle style then I am of the opinion it is priced way too high.

Two more things to check on C's.

With the rear stabilizers UP, move the rear bucket towards the ground and begin lifting the rear wheels up. If there is slop in the 'hoe subframe to tractor mainframe mounts you will definitely see/feel it, as you will be sitting on the seat mounted to the tractor and see/feel movement in the whole control assembly which is mounted to the hoe sub-frame.

Lift the front wheels off the ground and then grab each front wheel at the bottom and pull straight out. It is quite common for the bottom kingpin bearing to fail and the kingpin will start chewing into the bottom axle eyelets. If this happens, and is not caught in time you will be replacing the end of the axle assembly.

I think these are tough old 'hoes that are rather easy to work on. There is nothing on my machine that I am afraid to tackle. You may not share in that enthusiasm, so you may want to take my thoughts with the proverbial grain of salt.

I am definitely interested in what you decide, and would like to know if it is indeed a manual shuttle model.

Dustin

 

[Dustin Mason]

Two more things I forgot to mention.

The engine is probably getting tired, with the symptoms you described. I have found Case engines rather easy to rebuild but rather expensive too, you might want to check into that. The 207 Case diesel is very tired in my machine but it has excellent oil pressure, and for the occasional use that it gets it has a lot of life left in it.

I noticed the front bucket is rolled back way too far while elevated. There is supposed to be a rod that mounts from the bucket linkage and runs back along the right loader arm and hooks to the valve, giving you self-leveling action, and preventing you from dumping bucket contents on the hood. I would definitely determine why this rod is missing before going much further. The machine would be very annoying to operate without it.

Dustin

 

[cat320]

I think the machine looks very pretty and he did put time into getting new buckets and painting and the grill but it's rops cab kinda stinks in the winter hoses need to be replaced and engine might need to be done offer no more than $6 for it paint is cheap how is the trainnie does it shift fine what about the floor nutral switch ?

 

[thehose]

I owned 2 of these back in the day. Kept them til '98 other til '99.
They were no where this pretty, no brakes for 10+ years. Had both of the engines refreshed for $1650 each and sold for about 9000 each.

I would say $7500 for this one, its pretty, but you can get an older 'K' for that 10 with far more life in it.

Let's say you need the engine re-done. 10,400 plus 1800 and now you can have a strong 'K' probably with a reman'd engine in it already.

Then, I'm not a big fan of painted spotless machines. Leave it alone and schedule the paint after the sale. I believe fresh paint is the great hider.

Dustin gave great tips above.

 

[JS580SL]

I just learned alot in the last few posts.

 

[chavez]

Interesting paint job to the say the least...it looks good though. Did you look closely at the metal to make sure there weren't any cracks and make mental notes of any weld on the backhoe? Minor mechanical issues with a machine that old are to be expected, if it were an M or something then leaks and exhaust coming out of the locations you specified would be cause for concern but that's a fairly old machine. But, the price being asked (if the machine is as good as it looks and he says) isn't too unreasonable. Case holds their value very well and those machines don't quit. Like JS580SL mentioned, take a peak around and see what else is out there but do some more trial runs w/ that machine and see how it holds up.

What else have you done with that machine and what else have you looked at on that machine? That bucket looks like it's a 3 footer or something.

Oh, and do you have any more pictures?

Blake
WA

The bucket is 2 foot. I didn't do much more than dig / drive around for about 45 minutes. I didn't even think of checking the oil . I didn't notice any weld but I wasn't looking for it either.

Of course I have more pictures.

 

[chavez]

No brakes, eh? That is rather common with these machines. If the master cylinders are leaking and need rebuilt I would assume the slaves do too. If they are not pitted too bad you can save them with a brake hone. Also, if you need to get into the brakes themselves, they are mounted externally on the transaxle, so the whole rear end doesn't have to come apart. They are a dry servo drum/disc combination.


You said something that intrigues me. You mentioned the clutch seemed good. From the looks of the picture you took of the leaky hose, the bottom of the shuttle unit makes me think it is a manual shuttle model with a dry clutch and no torque converter. Is there a clutch pedal on the left, with the brake pedals on the right? If so you have found one of the rarer C models, as most 580C's came with a power shuttle/torque converter drivetrain, and they will have the individual wheel brake pedals to the left with a master brake pedal on the right. Personally, I have no use for a dry clutch model. If that is OK for you so be it. If you are not too familiar with this style of machine I would suggest you try out a power shuttle model to check your preferences. I have not kept up with the value of 580C's but if this dry clutch model is priced similarly to a power shuttle style then I am of the opinion it is priced way too high.

I believe there was a brake pedal for each wheel. The pedals went (from left to right) Clutch, Left Brake, Right Brake, Gas. There was also a lever on the steering column to shift from forward to reverse. I didn't have to use the clutch unless changing gears - there were 4. Does that help?? There is a pic I just posted of the transmission (I think)

Two more things to check on C's.

With the rear stabilizers UP, move the rear bucket towards the ground and begin lifting the rear wheels up. If there is slop in the 'hoe subframe to tractor mainframe mounts you will definitely see/feel it, as you will be sitting on the seat mounted to the tractor and see/feel movement in the whole control assembly which is mounted to the hoe sub-frame.

I did see some movement while digin. I was watching the portions onf the controls and noticed a little movement with respect to the fenders. Is it a hard mount? I didn't hear any clunks, just saw some flex.

Lift the front wheels off the ground and then grab each front wheel at the bottom and pull straight out. It is quite common for the bottom kingpin bearing to fail and the kingpin will start chewing into the bottom axle eyelets. If this happens, and is not caught in time you will be replacing the end of the axle assembly.

I think these are tough old 'hoes that are rather easy to work on. There is nothing on my machine that I am afraid to tackle. You may not share in that enthusiasm, so you may want to take my thoughts with the proverbial grain of salt.

I am definitely interested in what you decide, and would like to know if it is indeed a manual shuttle model.

Dustin

Thanks for the info. I really not scared to do anything as long as someone can coach me through if I get stuck.

 

[chavez]

Two more things I forgot to mention.

The engine is probably getting tired, with the symptoms you described. I have found Case engines rather easy to rebuild but rather expensive too, you might want to check into that. The 207 Case diesel is very tired in my machine but it has excellent oil pressure, and for the occasional use that it gets it has a lot of life left in it.

I noticed the front bucket is rolled back way too far while elevated. There is supposed to be a rod that mounts from the bucket linkage and runs back along the right loader arm and hooks to the valve, giving you self-leveling action, and preventing you from dumping bucket contents on the hood. I would definitely determine why this rod is missing before going much further. The machine would be very annoying to operate without it.

Dustin

Take a look at this pic. There is a rod hanging that the guy said went into the bracket just behind with some kind of switch. Can't remember what it was supposed to do.

 

[chavez]

I think the machine looks very pretty and he did put time into getting new buckets and painting and the grill but it's rops cab kinda stinks in the winter hoses need to be replaced and engine might need to be done offer no more than $6 for it paint is cheap how is the trainnie does it shift fine what about the floor nutral switch ?

Seemed to shift fine...uhhh floor neutral switch????

 

[chavez]

I owned 2 of these back in the day. Kept them til '98 other til '99.
They were no where this pretty, no brakes for 10+ years. Had both of the engines refreshed for $1650 each and sold for about 9000 each.

I would say $7500 for this one, its pretty, but you can get an older 'K' for that 10 with far more life in it.

Let's say you need the engine re-done. 10,400 plus 1800 and now you can have a strong 'K' probably with a reman'd engine in it already.

Then, I'm not a big fan of painted spotless machines. Leave it alone and schedule the paint after the sale. I believe fresh paint is the great hider.

Dustin gave great tips above.

Didn't the K's have electrical problems. I recall reading that on here somewhere.

This same guy has a couple of E's for around $13.5K

 

[cat320]

Seemed to shift fine...uhhh floor neutral switch????

I belive it should be to the left or under the brake bascily the clutch so you can shift. but those never seam to work for very long with the dirt on the floor. I notice in one pic that there was a crack in the bottom of the boom with the 2 bolts . the other thing you point out is the return to dig feature on the loader arm I would not worrie to much about that mine was gone too when i had the C and i never really missed it.

 

[thehose]

It is a Shuttle shift model with your description of the lever on the steering column to pull back for reverse, forward for...

Yes some of the K's have electrical problems but we are talking about the kinds of problems that make a guy that spent $65k mad, not the 10-18k guys.

I point this out again, 'he painted the hell out of it' it does look sharp. I don't think anyone is trying to take that away from it at all. I have an "L" that don't look that good.

Go out to www.machinerytrader.com and www.equipmenttraderonline.com
look around at some "C's" and get a feel for what they are going for. These probably won't be painted as nice so you do have a bit of a plus in that.

Then, do you have a mechanic buddy that can do a once over on the engine???

 

[Steve Frazier]

Take a look at this pic. There is a rod hanging that the guy said went into the bracket just behind with some kind of switch. Can't remember what it was supposed to do.

That looks like the system that automatically stops the bucket at level on return to dig. The rod activates a switch that kicks out the hydraulic valve for the bucket at the proper time.

 

[coopers]

I am pretty sure the piece that keeps the bucket from rolling back like that all the way up is this rod, which you do not have. It's not a huge deal but it can be a pain in the ass when the bucket doesn't automatically move to keep level.

Here's a pic of a C with the proper rod.

Blake
WA

 

[Bayrat]

480e

http://www.geocities.com/ringfire_29/case480e.jpg

This is a picture of one I looked at and almost purchased. I found nothing wrong with it, ran great, strong hydraulics and actually looks better in person than in that picture. A guy has it listed here on this forum for 13.9 I believe. Has around 2700 on the meter. Never been painted, what you see is what you get. Tires are marginal.

The ONLY reason I did not go for this one is that I found a 2000 580 for an extremely good price. Look on the web, these things go for big bucks as the hoe can be removed and the tractor used for other purposes.