Starting Case 580CK in gear

[dirty rice]

I just bought a Case 580CK with power shuttle that grinds gears. Is there any way to jury rig it so that the tractor can be started with the gear selector in any gear and not have to be in "S"? Is there any basic things I can do to minimize the grinding (like adjust the clutch) before I really have to tear into the transmission? Thanks.

 

[Juskatla]

Not recommended for safety reasons, but just bypass the switch. Many are like that with the same problem of not being able to shift while its running. The fix is a shuttle overhaul, not the transmission. You can use it with the bypass, as I did with mine for years. Just be sure the shuttle is in neutral and everyone else is clear of the machine. You can search on here and find threads with pictures of the shuttle disassembled. There are springs that release the clutch packs when the shuttle is in neutral. You will find they are broken. I got my replacements from Dale Weiss @ Tractorstuff. They are not available from Case. While in there, you will need other parts as the springs will have damaged clutch plates and those tricky metal seals will be worn. Its not hard, just requires some patience and caution to not break the metal sealing rings.

Have fun with your 580CK

 

[dirty rice]

Not recommended for safety reasons, but just bypass the switch. Many are like that with the same problem of not being able to shift while its running. The fix is a shuttle overhaul, not the transmission. You can use it with the bypass, as I did with mine for years. Just be sure the shuttle is in neutral and everyone else is clear of the machine. You can search on here and find threads with pictures of the shuttle disassembled. There are springs that release the clutch packs when the shuttle is in neutral. You will find they are broken. I got my replacements from Dale Weiss @ Tractorstuff. They are not available from Case. While in there, you will need other parts as the springs will have damaged clutch plates and those tricky metal seals will be worn. Its not hard, just requires some patience and caution to not break the metal sealing rings.

Have fun with your 580CK

Where is the switch located? I was planning to shut the machine off if I need to change gears since I don't have time to fix the problem right now. The shuttle seemed to work fine so I thought it was the transmission. Does the shuttle overhaul require splitting the tractor? Also, what does the "I" gear position under the starting position "S" for? Thanks.

 

[Juskatla]

The switch is located right by the transmission shifter. For years, when I needed to shift gears, I just shut it off. The shuttle worked ok, except for not fully stopping in neutral, making the gears grind when you try to shift. You will need to split the tractor to access the shuttle. I comes out the back of the torque tube casting, which splits ahead of the transmission. There are a few things that make sense to do when its split, but you can research that in a number of threads on here. I don't think there is an "I' , just the S and to the right, the 1,2,3 & 4 gears. If you don't already have a manual, I highly recommend that you find one as it will help you understand what is involved with the various functions of the tractor.

Here are a few pictures of the springs I mentioned...

 

[Swampfoxo]

I just bought a Case 580CK with power shuttle that grinds gears. Is there any way to jury rig it so that the tractor can be started with the gear selector in any gear and not have to be in "S"? Is there any basic things I can do to minimize the grinding (like adjust the clutch) before I really have to tear into the transmission? Thanks.

My case 580 b with shuttle will grind gears till ilowrr my rpm shift into gear and then throttle it up. Try that

 

[dirty rice]

My case 580 b with shuttle will grind gears till ilowrr my rpm shift into gear and then throttle it up. Try that

Thanks I'll give that a shot - around what rpm is low enough so it won't grind? Do you know if the 580s do that from the factory or is that a result of years of use?

 

[Swampfoxo]

Im a junior member here. I havent had my backhoe case 580 b but a year . But after i start it in neutral. I then put it in gear i throtyle it up after its in geat and the power shuttle is in the neutral position. Othrrwise i think the higher rpm creates fluid prssure snd dtarts closing the clutch plates . Just a guess. Im not sure ifyou have this setup or ifyou really have a problem. But youhave 2 neutrals one on ur power shuttleby the steering wheel the otheron the gearshift. Ihope thishelped mike

 

[Swampfoxo]

Thinking about it. This could also be a posdibility. On your dash if everything was new. You would shift from forward or reverse toneutral. The valve under the fuel tank that works the power shuttle hydraulic pressure dump would stop fluid flow. However if the machine getsolder u have wear. The bypass fluid would try and close the clutches in the piwer shuttle. By the leakby fluid.mine if iput it at low idle not enough fluid is leaking by yet to cause a steady grinding. My question to you is the do called clutch which is really just a hydraulic fluid dump valve. Does yours work like this. If so hit this and try toput in gear. With thispressed the power shuttle pump cantcreate pressure toclose the cluthces. This will telll u if uhave a bearing goi g out orif its in the shuttle

 

[Juskatla]

The reason it grinds is the clutch plates are no longer releasing when the shuttle is in neutral. This is because when there is no hydraulic pressure on the shuttle for either forward or reverse gears, the springs in the clutch hub would normally release the clutch packs. The pictures I already posted show what happens to the release springs as these machines get old. No guessing as this has already been covered on tnis forum by a number of other posts. I benefitted form these and ended up rebuilding my shuttle. My shuttle worked fine except that even with the clutch pedal depressed fully, and the shuttle pressure gauge showing pressure to the clutches 'dumped', they were not completely releasing.

In the mean time, you can connect the two wires that go to the neutral switch located in the transmission top cover near the shifter. This will defeat the safety switch and allow the tractor to start in gear with the shuttle in neutral. Mine was like that when I got it and I used it that way for another 20+ yrs before the rebuild.

If it will shift at low idle, then you have a bit of time before a rebuild is necessary, but nothing will make it any better except a proper repair. I suggest that if you haven't already got a service manual, that you get one before you go to far with anything. In the manual, there is a section on how the Power Shuttle works and diagrams to help you understand what happens when its in neutral, forward and reverse. The rest of the manual is invaluable in understanding the what and how of these relatively simple machines. Have fun.

 

[dirty rice]

Thanks guys for all the advice. On a separate issue, the support that ties the two loader arms together has a large split in it. Can I just put some mild steel plate over it and weld with 6011 or does it require a different repair procedure?

 

[Juskatla]

The loader arms and that cross member are subject to fractures from years of misuse and overloading. Mine has gusset plates on the right hand arm, and stress cracks in the welds for that cross member. I have seen pictures on here of reinforcing angle added on and welded. I'm not sure what rods are appropriate but you should get some other opinions from the regulars here. On loader arms, I am still considering either a replacement from a wrecker or taking it to a welding shop and having them cut off the crap gussets and repair the whole thing properly. Since I'm a long way from any sources for decent used replacements, I'll probably go for the welding shop rebuild. I'm so far into my tractor rebuild now that a few more $$$ won't matter much but the end result will be worth it.

 

[Swampfoxo]

Ok

The reason it grinds is the clutch plates are no longer releasing when the shuttle is in neutral. This is because when there is no hydraulic pressure on the shuttle for either forward or reverse gears, the springs in the clutch hub would normally release the clutch packs. The pictures I already posted show what happens to the release springs as these machines get old. No guessing as this has already been covered on tnis forum by a number of other posts. I benefitted form these and ended up rebuilding my shuttle. My shuttle worked fine except that even with the clutch pedal depressed fully, and the shuttle pressure gauge showing pressure to the clutches 'dumped', they were not completely releasing.

In the mean time, you can connect the two wires that go to the neutral switch located in the transmission top cover near the shifter. This will defeat the safety switch and allow the tractor to start in gear with the shuttle in neutral. Mine was like that when I got it and I used it that way for another 20+ yrs before the rebuild.

If it will shift at low idle, then you have a bit of time before a rebuild is necessary, but nothing will make it any better except a proper repair. I suggest that if you haven't already got a service manual, that you get one before you go to far with anything. In the manual, there is a section on how the Power Shuttle works and diagrams to help you understand what happens when its in neutral, forward and reverse. The rest of the manual is invaluable in understanding the what and how of these relatively simple machines. Have fun.

I alrwady got a full repair

 

[Swampfoxo]

So i. Did i got a full repair manual
I alrwady changed out the engine.lol didnt do the dhuttle but . Im just learning on here. I thank yoh for letyinv me know. So dix u do an all arohnd fix. Springs plates forward and reverse. What did it cost ya. I wannaknow sp ill be ready. I try heplping as im learning. I rsbuily my hydraulic cylinderz and trying to find a way to fux the spring in my seat . Its gone. Repainted the rear boom and all. Placing nes hoses everywhere. Made bushings . Lol wherd the swing arm lower pin is outter and inner yhers ars none so i built some. Outta stainlrss. Good for,around the farm.

 

[Swampfoxo]

Nea radiator. New fluuds replacef the brakes . Needs a lil work. No springs and rod is bent

 

[Swampfoxo]

Not recommended for safety reasons, but just bypass the switch. Many are like that with the same problem of not being able to shift while its running. The fix is a shuttle overhaul, not the transmission. You can use it with the bypass, as I did with mine for years. Just be sure the shuttle is in neutral and everyone else is clear of the machine. You can search on here and find threads with pictures of the shuttle disassembled. There are springs that release the clutch packs when the shuttle is in neutral. You will find they are broken. I got my replacements from Dale Weiss @ Tractorstuff. They are not available from Case. While in there, you will need other parts as the springs will have damaged clutch plates and those tricky metal seals will be worn. Its not hard, just requires some patience and caution to not break the metal sealing rings.

Have fun with your 580CK

 

[Swampfoxo]

Ok thanks. Ilove messing with it . For some its oldcars u can just drive me its a backhoe i can tear **** upwith.lol.

 

[Juskatla]

I have been getting all my parts from Dale Weiss at Tractorstuff . He knows his way around these old tractors and has made sure I got the correct parts for what I needed. On the shuttle, there are a few bits you will need to buy for sure, and then some that will depend on the condition of the clutch discs. The 'Case only' sealing rings were around US $ 135. and the if I recall, the springs were $20 to 30 for the set to do both hubs. One of the members helped me with his extra friction discs and sent along a few of the metal sealing rings. They are easy to break and he had to order another kit thru Dale. I broke one but the got that one from those that were sent to me. Thanks Xpack/Oneman! I can't quote the friction disc costs but when those springs broke, some small bits got in between a couple of the discs and scored them badly. I set those aside, mic'd the rest and swapped out with the ones sent to me. Xpac/Oneman had done his and I learned a lot reading his experiences on here. You can search for those threads on 580CKs and see what we have been up to.

For Dirty Rice, here is picture I grabbed from a thread that 1968 Case 580CK started. It shows the repairs to his loader arm cross member. You could do the same type of repair and it would be fine.

 

[Swampfoxo]

My cross member iz fine it might havd been done years ago or never. I use colman tractor online for avpictorial break down. The pics,show the assenmbly as well as partnumbers . If im not wrong therez like 24 disc for forwars and reverse. I plan on doing all mine. The seal u broke. Xan u tellme mors odf z successful way not to brak mine when i do it. His hoe looks great painted. I hope mine looks as good but my grille was homemade. Lost years ago in some distant hole .

 

[Swampfoxo]

I save these pics too never know dhen u might have to refer to them

 

[Swampfoxo]

I cant remember how to search the post