Skid Suggestions

[tremor]

New member here.
I'm looking for a skid machine that can handle pushing/blowing snow on a 100 foot drive, as well as be able to grade new gravel for my drive and do some light brush clearing. On top of that, in a year or two I'd like to turn this machine into a business doing the same chores, but for other people.
The problem is I can't decide on a track or wheeled machine. I've read countless topics all over the net on this, but it usually ends up in a pissing match over what machine is better. The tracks won't disturb lawns and landscaping, but won't have the traction in icy conditions.
But from what I've read neither do tires, meaning for good traction in the white stuff I'm looking at either studding or buying new winter tires or tracks. Thoughts?

And btw I've settled on Bobcats. My dealer has a nice looking T870 with low hours available...

 

[franklinute]

If money wasn't an issue I would go for the rubber tracks. I see an oportunity for someone to invent a chain or metal bar clip-on
to give rubber tracks the edge in snow. I own 3 skid steers. One with tires, one with tires and metal tracks, and one that alternates
between tires with metal tracks and the VTS track system. If I were forced into choosing 1 machine I would probably go with the
VTS clad machine.
If money was tight I would stick with tires and metal tracks. With a little bit of experience not a big deal taking tracks off and on.

 

[tremor]

VTS? That's those metal tracks that fit onto a wheel system? Sorry, no experience in heavy equipment terminology.

 

[franklinute]

Terex owns VTS used to be made by Loegering. It is a rubber track system that replaces the tires and wheels on a skid steer.
The rubber track is longer and wider than the CTL machines. Very expensive way to put rubber tracks on a standard skid steer.

 

[franklinute]

To be accurate Loegering makes VTS.http://http://www.loegering.com/tracksystems/VTS.asp

 

[Todd v.]

I have done some snow pushing and in regular snow the tire machines have a definite edge, and in borderline icy conditions the edge widens up a bit. Once it's icy only metal studs will do and that's easier to do with a tired machine. Tracks are better for grading and not making a mess of things but also cost more to buy and maintain. Pick your poison.

 

[KSSS]

The T870 is a lot of machine to blow snow and doing light duty jobs such as regraveling driveways. You can accomplish the same with T650 for a lot less money and a lot less diesel fuel, easier to trailer (you will need a deck over for the T870). You can get Bridgestone Polar tracks for your CTL, sounds like they work real well in snow and ice.

 

[tremor]

What about a Bobcat S550? If I can't find a decent useful unit, I might end up leasing through Bobcat.

 

[CRAFT]

What about a Bobcat S550? If I can't find a decent useful unit, I might end up leasing through Bobcat.

Wow ! ….. you are jumping all over the spectrum ……. from the biggest top end T870 machine down to bottom of the barrel S550 ……. Like ??? …. what are your serious needs ??? ….. those 2 machines shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence ……. What is your budget ??? …. are you looking at New or Used ??? ….

 

[Todd v.]

A 600 series machine is probably where you want to be, 630 or 650. They have a 2200# or so working load and 75ish horsepower and you'll probably want an enclosed, heated cab. I've spent time pushing snow in an open cab and it takes a while to warm back up when it's cold out. You won't need to worry about it for your driveway but if you start doing it for money it will be more important.

One weekend we had a big snow, 44", I ran down the street afterwards while people were digging out just to help out the neighbors for free but decided to accept tips. Well 6 hours later when I emptied my pockets I had close to $800. There's money to be made.

 

[JNB]

New member here.
I'm looking for a skid machine that can handle pushing/blowing snow on a 100 foot drive, as well as be able to grade new gravel for my drive and do some light brush clearing. On top of that, in a year or two I'd like to turn this machine into a business doing the same chores, but for other people.
The problem is I can't decide on a track or wheeled machine. I've read countless topics all over the net on this, but it usually ends up in a pissing match over what machine is better. The tracks won't disturb lawns and landscaping, but won't have the traction in icy conditions.
But from what I've read neither do tires, meaning for good traction in the white stuff I'm looking at either studding or buying new winter tires or tracks. Thoughts?

And btw I've settled on Bobcats. My dealer has a nice looking T870 with low hours available...

Sounds like you need a 4WD tractor. I wouldn't bother to start up my CTL for any of the tasks you mentioned.

 

[tremor]

So like compact tractors like the John Deere 1026R?
I did look into those, they don't seem the have the omph to power a snowblower for the winter. On my drive I have all kinds of issues with drifts, but one the one side drops off steep making plowing off problematic.
Budget isn't too big of a concern, I got a couple grand to sink into a down payment or to make payments, plus my extra from my salary and another couple grand in a year or so for maintenance or repairs. I've got it figured out that I could absorb costs for about two years before having to go make money with the machine to recoup some cost.
Skidsteers have all the implements a guy could ever want, but essentially suck in snow/ice. A tractor has the traction but is less limited on implements.
Can't have it all though, so I suppose I'll have to compromise somewhere.
(Oh and implement wise, I figure to start, if nothing else a light material bucket and combination bucket, then snowblower and maybe a V-plow. Then when I turn it into a business, an asphalt sweeper for summer work on hard surface drives.)

 

[JNB]

That's pretty small for anything other than your own use. I'd be looking more at a hydrostatic 40hp+ tractor with a strong loader and a minimum of two rear remotes. I wouldn't pay for green paint myself. I have a New Holland with 3,000 hrs. on it thats been a very profitable machine, but things have changed since I bought mine and I wouldn't go blue again. Even my NH dealer suggests and carries another brand in this size tractor now. Depending on the reputation of the dealer I'd be looking at Mahindra, Kioti and LS. More bang for the buck with good track records and a growing market share.

 

[tremor]

LS...what manufacturer is that? Lol I only suggested the JD cause every lawn machine my family has had for generations has been green.

 

[JNB]

LS has their own line and makes some tractor models for CNH (Case and NH). My NH was actually manufactured by Shibaura, but since they've shifted more toward the CVT than HST they've had problems. Funny you mentioned family and Deere. My family's in Iowa and a bunch of them work for JD. I've taken flack from time to time. I'd like to add a Deere 210LE to my stable for the work I do, but the color yellow doesn't seem to command the price that green does.

 

[tremor]

Yeah, nothing but dependable Deeres in our stable. Bobcat is pretty much synonymous with skidsteer. Thanks for the suggestions for the tractors from Kioti and LS. I'll look into them.

 

[StumpyWally]

New member here.
I'm looking for a skid machine that can handle pushing/blowing snow on a 100 foot drive, as well as be able to grade new gravel for my drive and do some light brush clearing. On top of that, in a year or two I'd like to turn this machine into a business doing the same chores...

And btw I've settled on Bobcats. My dealer has a nice looking T870 with low hours available...

100' of driveway for a SSL is going to be a piece of cake for any SSL/CTL...way overkill, really.

I started 25 yrs ago with a small, 4wd, compact diesel, a Ford 1320, with a loader, turf tires, no cab, rear-mount mower. Plowed my 600' driveway with just the bucket w/ chains on all 4 tires. Worked good, even on ice. But, I froze!! But, it has been & continues to be the handiest piece of equipment I have ever owned.

2.5 yrs ago, I added a new, NH L220 SSL, loaded with options, with all rubber Camoplast over the tire tracks (OTTs). I leave the OTTs on all year for floatation. Because of the tread, they don't tear up the turf too bad, & they work great in snow, not bad on ice. But the real plus is the maneuverability of the SSL, & the warm cab & heated seat in the winter.

If traction on ice is paramount, then you have to go steel...either studs or chains on a SSL, or steel OTTs. But either one will scar up pavement & tear up turf.

If floatation & traction on snow is paramount, then do the rubber OTTs, or a rubber tracked MTL with a suspended undercarriage, like Cat offers. The suspended undercarriage will even work better on ice than the rubber OTTs, but do NOT expect to run it in rocks, gravel, or on a lot on dry pavement. That will wear the undercarriage very excessively. You can offset some of this wear by installing 3rd party aluminum rollers (from Bair, I think, rather than the OEM rubber ones), but this style of undercarriage is the most expensive from a maintenance point of view, but also absolutely the most comfortable riding & the easiest on turf. It needs to be run with care, not misused.

So, there is no perfect solution. Decide what is most important. I will say that if being able to negotiate in tight spaces is important, then the SSL/MTL wins hands down against any compact tractor.

One more thing, if you work alone a lot, & you will be getting in/out of the machine a lot, & even want to attach things to the bucket when it is part way up, then you have to have a side-entry machine, like any compact tractor, compact wheel loader, or the unique side-entry SSL/CTL made by JCB. Getting in/out of ANY front-entry SSL/CTL/MTL is a PITA, & impossible when the boom is not down. So, think carefully about this.

Also, regardless of whether you go tractor, loader, or SSL/MTL, if you want a very versatile & unique grapple bucket, look at the Demo-Dozer: http://www.demo-dozer.com/ If I had known about it before I bought my SSL, I would have opted for it rather than the low-profile bucket I have.

 

[tremor]

Wow you guys are awesome with thr tips, tricks and a suggestions! Gives me a lot ro think about.
And btw the grappler is awesome. Mind=blown.

 

[Jeepwalker]

Skidsteers have all the implements a guy could ever want, but essentially suck in snow/ice.

I know this is an older thread, but here are some thoughts I didn't see articulated that I thought I'd add:
1) If you're going to get a SSL or a compact tractor at some point (to make money with), you are going to need a PU and trailer to move it around with. Or maybe you already have a decent PU. So, why not just get a V-plow on a truck? I've seen used nice V-plows locally on CL in the $3,000 range, and even lower. I bought a Western V-plow for $1,600 a couple yrs ago. Moving snow in the warm cab of a PU is THE way to go and you can move a LOT of snow quickly. A PU is going to go fast enough to roll the snow which is the real benefit of moving snow with a pick-up. Both my neighbor and I have about the same length of driveways (about 1.5 football fields long ..including end zones), his only snow machine is a no-heat cab SSL. After a big storm, it literally takes him more than a full morning using a bucket to do what I can do in my truck in 20 minutes, and I end up clearing off a lot more space than he does. If he had a blade he could cut his time down, but no where near how quick a pick-up can move snow. It takes him a long time to warm his body back up when it's really cold out. It takes my dad about a day to do his driveway with a small skid loader and my brother and I used to plow it out with a truck in a 1/2 hour. A plow on a PU will make you a lot more money plowing snow for starting out because you can drive quickly from place to place. No loading up a SSL. Plus you use a lot less fuel.

2) I have another neighbor who has a snow blower on a Bobcat 753. His driveway has got to be a full 1/4 mile long. It takes him a fair amount of time to do mainly because he can't move very quickly and he usually only makes a pass up and then down ...sometimes a 3rd time. He doesn't have a heated cab and on a cold, windy day (which it usually is), he tells me how cold it is to operate. Nice thing about a blower is it gets the snow up and out of the way if you aim the chute to blow the snow 'with' the wind. Therefore it minimizes drift-back which you can get if you plow with a truck plow and plow to each side of the driveway. I generally plow the snow to the downwind side of our driveway all the time so I don't get drift-back.
3) I'm not against SSL's to move snow, sometime's it's the only way to deal with a major storm and solid drifts. But it can be a long and cold process, that's why a cab would almost be essential for a lot of SSL snow work. I wouldn't worry too much about traction with a wheeled machine. If you have good, crisp tires, it'll work fine because the machines are so heavy. Personally drifts haven't stopped my 1845C. SSL's are actually MORE fun to use in the snow because the tires slip a little more making the machines a lot less 'jerky' than on dry pavement.
4) Unless you get a decent sized compact tractor you can do a lot more digging and material handling with SSL. But then you're going to have a ton invested. You might consider looking for a good deal on a used SSL for $12k or so.


I guess when it comes down to it, you need to fit the right tool for the job. If you are looking for a snow-moving machine a truck with a plow on it is going to be the least expensive way to start (if you already have a truck). Most contractors around here that do summer work with Bobcats also have trucks with plows for winter work.

 

[ejb17]

I agree with StumpyWally. I had a hard time choosing between tires or tracks so I got both. What I am saying is my Deere 318D is great with a cab/heat for the winter and I sold my 3 point blower this year to get a blower for the 318D. All I can say is wow!

I also do a lot of work on turf so I went and found a set of Loegering VTS tracks and use this setup for the good weather months. A little more difficult to change from tires to tracks with my setup than over the tire tracks but for what I do around homes and trees it works perfect.

I did buy the Demo-Dozer grapple bucket as StumpyWally mentioned and would recommend it. I have had it for just over a year and actually never use the regular bucket that came with the machine. It was a little pricey but I do tree work with it and load dumpsters with it so a Grapple with pointed ends would never work when picking up piles of shingles off the ground. I also found that with the grapples up and the sides bolted on it can push and move a lot of snow so maybe you could do without a push-blade in some areas.

I do think , however, that my next machine would be a CTL. Also my current machine has low and high flow hydraulics and I would not buy a machine without high flow any more. Having both is so convienent.