service pit

[Randy88]

Nowing75, nice picture, how did you do your lights in the pit are they recessed into the walls and are the walls straight up and down inside or is it slightly wider at the bottom of the pit, also how deep is your pit and what do you have for steps or ladder system to get into it? Thanks for taking the time to post the picture and respond.

 

[nowing75]

I just had the boom in the pit so we could grease it. I will have to check how deep it is we went deeper then the boss had wanted but im glade we did because for pickups its almost not deep enough. The lights are resesed in the wall we put foam in the form to make a block out when we pored it We made stairs at eather end that pivot up to clean the floor and you can just un pin if you need them out. It has a sump pit at one end and air along the wall. If we were to do it again i would want a resess in the wall for the tool box.

 

[t_dirt]

Here are a few pics of my Buddie's Pit. It has 12" beams around the top w/ a few pull points, lights, electric, heat, sump pump, and air. About 4 1/2' deep, very nice!!!

 

[cad7]

Hi Randy. We too are in Iowa and plan to set up an equipment pit for Dozers and Trucks. We have been advised by a pit owner in Solon that he made his pit too low since you are usually working on a truck or crawler underside that is already 2 ft high. The pit for Trolleys in Mount Pleasant Trolley Barn is too low and you always have to stand on a box, which means you cannot walk or reach very far. It also requires a sump pit and pump to get rid of water. The Oil and grease from the century old cars pollutes the floor and a lot of oil dry is used and gets in the sump pit. That pit is 8 foot wide with supports and standard rail on beams under the rail on which to hit your head. The Cars weigh at least 10 ton and up to 30 ton.

How deep did you go with your pit?

 

[Randy88]

Cad7, to give you a quick and simple answer, mine is too shallow, only six feet deep, I'd go much deeper next time around, if your in Iowa, I don't care where you are located, and even if its only a foot deep, you need drainage and a sump pump, tile lines or whatever it takes to get rid of water not really from within the pit, but under and around the pit itself. I've seen far too many pits that have no means to get rid of water and are a glorified fishless water bowls that nobody can use.

I made mine to fit me, or so I thought, I'm slightly over six feet tall, and we use planks to cover the pit when not in use, which is very seldom, I have a ledge cemented into the top of the pit, so planks can fit in and be level with the rest of the shop floor. This was a great idea but we find we use the planks recessed into the top ledge to hold drain pans, jacks, blocks and whatever, then I have to bend over to clear those to get around in the pit itself.

Pits are designed to work on stuff standing up, never complain about having to stand on anything to reach comfortably what you need to work on, the issue you'll have with a shallow pit and your too tall and have to bend over to work on anything or get down on your knee's to work on things if your too tall when standing up. Not sure this makes sense or not, but you'll find even working on machines that have two feet of ground clearance or more, its better to need to stand on something to reach, than too tall to work on much of anything.

I'd measure your needs starting with your height, then plan on having planks, blocks or whatever spread across the top of the pit, never consider the height of the machines your working on as your gauge to measure off of, if that makes sense. Myself I'd want at least a foot over my head height to the top of the floor beside the pit, or ground level outside the pit itself, that way I can walk anywhere in the pit without bending over to clear blocks and low equipment.

Ideally I'd have a mesh decking to stand on, that had steps built into it in small increments so I can walk up it to get the ideal reach I need to work on things comfortably.

There are dozens of ways to design a pit, for dozens of applications, I'm not sure what exactly your planning on doing over your pit or what you have to work on per say, but don't go too shallow in depth is my advice, but I hate bending over and knocking my head on things. Not sure I helped at all, but to me, deeper is better than too shallow, I've wished mine was much deeper at times, never yet wished it was shallower, take it for what its worth.

 

[hetkind]

One of the reasons pits have fallen out of use is that they can collect both flammable vapors, toxic vapor and gases and liquids of all type. So an interlocked explosion proof blower is needed, as well as explosion proof lights and tools. Then to prevent it from being considered a confined space, easy access in and out with a vehicle in place. The quick change oil places by making the pit part of a complete floor with stairways, blowers interlocked with the lights and other such features. And all the sumpage/drainage has go to a water/oil separator before being discharged. It can be done, but not easily or cheaply.

Howard

 

[lantraxco]

I do like the pits I've seen with side exit stairs, of course that means there's a bridge header you have to walk under but at least you can't easily get trapped under something, or have issues with long trucks positioning over the access points. a sled or two on rollers to hold drain pans, tools, parts are pretty cool idea too.

 

[Randy88]

hetkind, your right to a certain extent, depending on the state's laws, what insurance companies deem and how or what your working on or plan to work on over the pit, with farm, semi's, trailers or construction equipment or even vehicles for that matter, my insurance company didn't have a set criteria to go by, they claimed there was no added risk or threat, it never affected my insurance at all, and ironically no ventilation was required. I didn't hard wire lights in, so no code was needed for that, basically nobody I talked to liked any that were hard wired in, they never shined where you needed light anyhow, glad now I didn't hard wire any in, my opinion is, they'd be completely worthless at best if I had done it. I wasn't required to have ventilation in the pit either, but I did put in a natural draft ventilation line where I could put in a fan if needed, turns out I never will, I have far too much the way it is and have to tape over the ventilation lines to partially shut them down, full open and you'd never get a cigarette lighter to light with the suction in the pit.

I had an insurance audit done before I put in a pit, basically someone from the insurance company comes out, does a sit down with you and you hash over the idea, the explanation I got from them was, if your concerned about toxic fumes and dying in the pit, you've got far more problems than just the service pit to worry about, most likely you'd be dead on the shop floor anyhow, long before the pit was an issue. Now if you work on or plan to work on painting equipment or trucks carrying chemicals, then maybe, but for my full line of equipment I own, which they went over piece by piece and asked what others I planned on buying or working on, nothing ever registered as a possible suspect for an issue. Now that said, I also don't run machines in the shop hours on end while in the pit either, nor in the shop without a hood on them, so it was a mute point is how it was explained to me and still feel to this day.

I'd been told by dozens of people what a bad idea it was to put in a pit, said I'd die like everyone else who's ever had one, so I asked both the state and my insurance company for data of deaths or injuries sustained while working in a service pit, both had nothing to back it up for "my" type of work I'd be performing, other types they had some, and most everyone was doing something they shouldn't be doing when a problem came up to cause the statistics. My insurance company told me, it was about like dropping a dozer on yourself and dying from that cause, it happened on the shop floor, thus all shop floors should be banned kind of thinking, we'll forget the fact in order to actually drop a dozer on yourself, maybe you were not doing something right in the first place and maybe you were not where you should have been that was safe, but blame it on the shop floor, it was the cause, and that was a direct quote from an insurance company rep I spoke with and his analogy of the thinking of some as to not put in a service pit.

Before ever putting one in, I'd contact both the state and insurance company and even the city if you live in a city and ask about requirements or codes you need to know about, and get everything up front first, then proceed. Your state, location, insurance, everything might be different, same goes for what your working on, but for me, none of those issues applied or were a factor, now if you consider safety as the issue, I'd take the pit any day over working under a machine blocked up, or laying on a creeper on the shop floor, but that's just me. As for not being able to get out from under whatever is parked on the pit, chances are if you drive the piece over the pit, and can't get out, there's a good chance your not going to get into the pit in the first place due the machine being parked in the way. Now if you have someone else drive the machine over the pit and your in it, my question is, would you lay on the shop floor as someone drove the machine over you to save crawling under it??

I'm not really sure how anyone gets so much contaminates in the sump, doesn't anyone use containers to collect used oil they are draining out of the machine and just dump it in the pit floor?? As for washing off machines, do you guys collect all the wash water outside the shop and filter that?? If this is such a big issue, pump the sump water outside on the wash bay floor and do the same thing as you do with the wash water, which is in most case's let it run or collect in a huge wash vat to be pumped out and dumped via a septic service is what is done around here, then run into a waste treatment facility that way. I'm not sure how most do it, but we generally wash the stuff off first before putting it over a pit, collect waste oil as we go, and when done, maybe some is spilled and we use dirt or floor dry to clean it up, no different than the shop floor, where does all this contaminates come from?? And all toxic fumes, someone has to explain this to me, since neither the state or my insurance company had any hard data as to deaths or injuries that were caused by the use of a service pit, ironically nobody that warned me, had any name or incident either that stated specifically the pit was the cause when used properly, some whom had total brain farts, but they'd have died even without the pit involved.

 

[DARO]

Randy did you have any pictures of your pit?

 

[hetkind]

You have some excellent points there. I am concerned about carbon monoxide from a running engine dropping into the pit (C0 tends to sink), and OSHA has this funky confined space standard that is concerned about things like that, 29 CFR 1910.146. I have investigated more than one confined space fatality, and pulled guys out of trenches welding pipe when the CO from the welder sunk into the trench. Once you have a stairway out, it is no longer a confined space and OSHA can't cite. Since I tend to work on too many gasoline powered vehicles and dropping a fuel tank to change a pump often results in a spill and those vapors also sink.

One mechanic working in a shop by himself is one thing, but three or four separate jobs going on can make things interesting. I have come out of under a truck or bus coughing numerous times when some other idiot would fire up a Detroit 8V71 pointing towards me...

But I am not telling you anything that you don't already know. As lifts get cheaper, pits become less attractive. But they have their place. I have seem some wonderful photos of the two post bolt on lifts tipping in the most entertaining ways.

Howard

hetkind, your right to a certain extent, depending on the state's laws, what insurance companies deem and how or what your working on or plan to work on over the pit, with farm, semi's, trailers or construction equipment or even vehicles for that matter, my insurance company didn't have a set criteria to go by, they claimed there was no added risk or threat, it never affected my insurance at all, and ironically no ventilation was required. I didn't hard wire lights in, so no code was needed for that, basically nobody I talked to liked any that were hard wired in, they never shined where you needed light anyhow, glad now I didn't hard wire any in, my opinion is, they'd be completely worthless at best if I had done it. I wasn't required to have ventilation in the pit either, but I did put in a natural draft ventilation line where I could put in a fan if needed, turns out I never will, I have far too much the way it is and have to tape over the ventilation lines to partially shut them down, full open and you'd never get a cigarette lighter to light with the suction in the pit.

I had an insurance audit done before I put in a pit, basically someone from the insurance company comes out, does a sit down with you and you hash over the idea, the explanation I got from them was, if your concerned about toxic fumes and dying in the pit, you've got far more problems than just the service pit to worry about, most likely you'd be dead on the shop floor anyhow, long before the pit was an issue. Now if you work on or plan to work on painting equipment or trucks carrying chemicals, then maybe, but for my full line of equipment I own, which they went over piece by piece and asked what others I planned on buying or working on, nothing ever registered as a possible suspect for an issue. Now that said, I also don't run machines in the shop hours on end while in the pit either, nor in the shop without a hood on them, so it was a mute point is how it was explained to me and still feel to this day.

I'd been told by dozens of people what a bad idea it was to put in a pit, said I'd die like everyone else who's ever had one, so I asked both the state and my insurance company for data of deaths or injuries sustained while working in a service pit, both had nothing to back it up for "my" type of work I'd be performing, other types they had some, and most everyone was doing something they shouldn't be doing when a problem came up to cause the statistics. My insurance company told me, it was about like dropping a dozer on yourself and dying from that cause, it happened on the shop floor, thus all shop floors should be banned kind of thinking, we'll forget the fact in order to actually drop a dozer on yourself, maybe you were not doing something right in the first place and maybe you were not where you should have been that was safe, but blame it on the shop floor, it was the cause, and that was a direct quote from an insurance company rep I spoke with and his analogy of the thinking of some as to not put in a service pit.

Before ever putting one in, I'd contact both the state and insurance company and even the city if you live in a city and ask about requirements or codes you need to know about, and get everything up front first, then proceed. Your state, location, insurance, everything might be different, same goes for what your working on, but for me, none of those issues applied or were a factor, now if you consider safety as the issue, I'd take the pit any day over working under a machine blocked up, or laying on a creeper on the shop floor, but that's just me. As for not being able to get out from under whatever is parked on the pit, chances are if you drive the piece over the pit, and can't get out, there's a good chance your not going to get into the pit in the first place due the machine being parked in the way. Now if you have someone else drive the machine over the pit and your in it, my question is, would you lay on the shop floor as someone drove the machine over you to save crawling under it??

I'm not really sure how anyone gets so much contaminates in the sump, doesn't anyone use containers to collect used oil they are draining out of the machine and just dump it in the pit floor?? As for washing off machines, do you guys collect all the wash water outside the shop and filter that?? If this is such a big issue, pump the sump water outside on the wash bay floor and do the same thing as you do with the wash water, which is in most case's let it run or collect in a huge wash vat to be pumped out and dumped via a septic service is what is done around here, then run into a waste treatment facility that way. I'm not sure how most do it, but we generally wash the stuff off first before putting it over a pit, collect waste oil as we go, and when done, maybe some is spilled and we use dirt or floor dry to clean it up, no different than the shop floor, where does all this contaminates come from?? And all toxic fumes, someone has to explain this to me, since neither the state or my insurance company had any hard data as to deaths or injuries that were caused by the use of a service pit, ironically nobody that warned me, had any name or incident either that stated specifically the pit was the cause when used properly, some whom had total brain farts, but they'd have died even without the pit involved.

 

[Randy88]

Daro, what do you want pictures of per say, I could take some if you say what your wanting a view of, there's not much to it, just an open topped box with a lip along the top edge for planks to recess into. I ran the wiring, air lines and in floor heat lines under the concrete in pvc lines from the shop walls to the pit itself before the cement shop floor was poured. I have the main electrical panel and water manifold on one end attached to the pit walls. I ran pvc lines poured in the pit walls for the wiring and outlet boxes along one wall, all the ventilation tubes are at the bottom in three or four spots along one length of wall for sucking out stale air.

 

[Birken Vogt]

You have some excellent points there. I am concerned about carbon monoxide from a running engine dropping into the pit (C0 tends to sink)

Actually CO is almost zero (neutral) buoyancy, relative density 0.96716, one of the few gases that DOES NOT sink....*

CO2 sinks but it would take a ton of it to poison anybody and with all the air motion from open doors and wind, engine fans, etc. it would be unlikely.

One hazard for sure is flammable vapors such as gasoline and propane, and brake cleaner, they sink readily and will fill up spaces and many explosions and fires have resulted.

*HAHA MICEN was what we were taught in school. The list of gases lighter or equal to air. Hydrogen Ammonia Helium Acetylene Methane Illuminating gases Ethylene and Nitrogen. That's it, all else is heavier.

 

[lantraxco]

There's always a flip side... one time I was working in a shop that was a former bus barn, nice facility. Came back from lunch one day to find the guys walking around under a full size six wheel drive artic that they had proudly hoisted skyward on a two ram air over hydraulic bus hoist. After checking it over and giving them a pat on the back for being creative I did make a rule that they not hoist anything else without getting clearance from me first, lol. If it might, they will!

 

[caterpillarmech]

We have one. Full truck and trailer length. 4'x 6'. Metal sliding grates on top. Got grates in the bottom. has a secondary set of rails for the drain pan. Love it as I go on the weekends to change my oil. No mess, no clean up, and no bending over!

 

[norite]

I'm thinking about a pit for my next shop. I want to install ventilation for safety, so for removing heavier than air fumes and vapors from the floor of the pit, what is best? Should you suck air out of the bottom of the pit which may cause low laying fumes or vapors on the shop floor to be drawn into the pit. Or should you blow fresh air into the pit, or a combination of both?

 

[lantraxco]

Dunno what the "right" answer is, but to my thinking you would be best off with a fresh air source at one end and air suction at the other?

 

[Randy88]

I'd talk with a ventilation person, I'd think before you get concerned with that, you'd also want to factor in other things, like shop fans, air scrubbers/heat exchangers, forced air heaters, where your air inlets are and the list is endless, otherwise even with a suction fan pulling air out of the pit, those might allow air into the pit and end up being air inlets instead of outlets. Just something to ponder over and ask question about to your local ventilation person.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I'd blow air in from outside the pit because then your blower does not have to be explosion proof.

 

[norite]

Consider this, I am in Northern Ontario Ca. (Canada, not California ) It is -33 deg C this evening so cold air from outside is not the simple answer for me. How do you blow in air and be sure the heavier than air fumes and vapors are removed.I have talked to many people about this and the consensus so far is not to build a pit. I am hoping to hear from anyone who lives in a cold climate who has come up with a solution to this issue.

I am thinking some sort of air in and air out system for the pit is required. Obviously any air pumped outside or fresh air pumped in will add to the heating bill.

Has anyone seen a good solution to this?

 

[Birken Vogt]

It ain't rocket science; if you have some kind of fan circulating air down there in one end it should clear out any small spills within a couple of minutes. If you can feel any kind of breeze it should be OK.

But if you have to satisfy some bureaucratic regulations then you may have to have things designed and stamped, etc.