Seriously upsetting

[chidog]

IMHO, I seriously doubt there will be a discontinuance of IC engine power. That ability to grow fuel stocks from organic materials is all too simple, refilling a tractor tank with a biodiesel to return to work almost instantaneously instead of swapping a massive battery pack or awaiting a rapid charge for an hour that may not last long enough to complete a task.
All too many live Out where a battery fed machine is worthless for any real sense of reality and expense beyond means where a smaller IC will provide far longer far more secure.

iIRC Brazil has their own bio fuels refiners and nearly most cars run strictly on Alcohol fuels where trucks on biodiesel.

Actually what is really needed is for any large outfit (govmnt included) that has any sort of mineral fuel burning engines, (notice I never use the ______ist, ____crat, catch word of "fossil fuel") to be forced now to get rid of them. This means all the diesel generating plants everywhere, and all airport machinery like in alaska etc. Just imagine all nuke plants with battery back up and no diesel gensets. This needs to be, and should be done as a grand experiment to prove to anyone that thinks having power sources that do not burn a fuel, will not work. And as far as living out too far for battery's to work, I think there are plans for that as well.
Yeah I'm trying to figure out how they will charge the batterys for those radar outposts in Alaska, that I saw on a tv show the other night. Or the Alaska fishing boats, and factory's. How to charge all those heavy battery's? Too dark for solar, maybe a few wind storms would help them?

 

[mekanik]

Before I retired I worked for a large electric utility. They had two diesel generating stations on an island off the B.C. coast.
I can't imagine the cost of supplying fuel for these.
This is on the north end of the island:

The four trailers have 850 megawatt generators powered by Cat 3516s. Just past the trailers is an enclosure with an EMD 12-701 running another generator. The blue building to the right has three EMD 16-701 powered gen-sets. That is V16 with 701 cubic inches
per cylinder.

On the south end of the island there is another generating facility with three Cat 3516 powered generators inside and three more in trailers outside and an EMD 20-701 powering a 2.5 megawatt Generator.

One of the operators told me in the winter when its cold and the days are short the generators on the island can consume 25,000 litres of fuel in twenty four hours.

 

[92U 3406]

I see there's some electric construction equipment being built now.

I often wonder if there'll be a push for electric in the equipment market. I just can't fathom how long of an extension cord you'd need to charge up all the equipment on a logging show that's operating 50 kilometers off the nearest paved road.

 

[Truck Shop]

Some may find this over the top.

My theory-I was born in 1956, the U.S. population in 1956 was 164 million. 66 years of my life has gone by
and now the U.S. population is 334 million. Life in the U.S. in 1963 was very simple, low stress. I went to
grade school at a small 6 room building, there were about 13 kids in my class from 1st to 6th grade. As a
kid we played with what ever there was to make a game. Most parents drove at least a five year old car and
they only had one car. Families ate dinner at the table, only phone in the house was hanging on the wall.
Moms used clothes lines to dry the wash. Neighbors would help neighbors especially when it came to farming.
You went to school snow, ice, rain or shine-schools were not shut down because of bad roads. You ate
before you went to school and you ate what was on your plate period. Just a few things I remember from
that time.

Problem----There's too many people, too much population. Causing some real bad thinking. JMO.

 

[funwithfuel]

Some may find this over the top.

My theory-I was born in 1956, the U.S. population in 1956 was 164 million. 66 years of my life has gone by
and now the U.S. population is 334 million. Life in the U.S. in 1963 was very simple, low stress. I went to
grade school at a small 6 room building, there were about 13 kids in my class from 1st to 6th grade. As a
kid we played with what ever there was to make a game. Most parents drove at least a five year old car and
they only had one car. Families ate dinner at the table, only phone in the house was hanging on the wall.
Moms used clothes lines to dry the wash. Neighbors would help neighbors especially when it came to farming.
You went to school snow, ice, rain or shine-schools were not shut down because of bad roads. You ate
before you went to school and you ate what was on your plate period. Just a few things I remember from
that time.

Problem----There's too many people, too much population. Causing some real bad thinking. JMO.

And somehow, hippies thought, " what about how the kids feel? " who cares. No one gave a rat's @ss hair if we didn't like liver, kidney or god awful brussel sprouts. I mean what kinda psycho feeds a pre-teen asparagus? The point is, we were raised better. Sometimes, a kid just needs its @ss whooped. Now, kids rule the families. Kinda like us and our government. We got the tail waggin' the dog.

 

[Truck Shop]

I remember as a kid laying on my back in the pasture with a sprig of grass sticking out of my mouth looking
up and hearing sonic booms {remember those}. I found out years later the flight path of the SR 71 went
right over our area for testing out of Nevada. Just a buck wheat laying in the grass.

 

[AusDave]

Yes there are way too many people on the planet if they all want to live the life of those in developed countries.

There is not enough food, water, fossil fuels, land to maintain everyone in the lifestyle of the average US, European or Australian citizen.
The cheapest and easiest fuels to extract have been extracted, the best land has been farmed or covered with roads or suburbia, in short the cheapest and easiest options have largely been used up which is partially why there’s a bit of inflation happening.
Renewables don’t solve all these problems but the the sun and the wind are infinite sources of energy so one part of the equation is at least fixed.

The way these sources are utilised is in its infancy and building scale and efficiency will come quickly as there is so much money to be made in developing better tech for energy production and storage.

The hyperventilation over lithium rechargeables is over the top. If you have rechargeable torch, laptop, speakers, e-bike, power tool’s anything rechargeable, it’s got lithium batteries. They’re everywhere even in various health and medical aids. Just about all these devices are safe and people are happy to have them in their homes much more than storing petrol/diesel in their lounges.

And the current lithium battery tech is just one of many competing battery technologies being improved year on year. Current tech is comparable to pre Second World War engines. There is a lot of room for improvement and a lot of demand.

Hydrogen and other storage technology is also in its infancy with billions being invested into reducing cost and expanding availability and usability.

I do have photovoltaic solar power which has saved me thousands $$ in electricity over the past decade as well as solar hot water. But I do have a fleet of earthmoving equipment and vehicles in which all the diesel machines are mechanical injection with minimal tech and relatively easy for myself or a diesel tech to maintain or work on.
I’m not keen to upgrade to current diesel tech with its complexity and myriad points of failure which requires an expensive company tech to diagnose and work on.

I’d much rather see development go in better electric and storage tech than making more complicated internal combustion engines. when you understand how simple an electric motor is compared to contemporary diesel engines it’s just a no brainer.

 

[chidog]

That 25k Liters of fuel is nothing. A jet plane will drink that in way less than half that time. And that is one plane out of what 16,000 flights a day? Not sure.
Also there is no EMD 701 series engines. There is though 710, yeah I can be dyslexic as well.
And wow thanks for the great pictures, thats on Vancouver Island?

""((I’d much rather see development go in better electric and storage tech than making more complicated internal combustion engines. when you understand how simple an electric motor is compared to contemporary diesel engines it’s just a no brainer.)))"" It seems they don't like the idea of super efficient motors. Also it seems they don't want efficient ICE engines either, they always find something they spew out that is blamed on moving the high and low pressure areas and jet stream all over the place.

It would be interesting to know which of those units (engines) goes down the most.
I think there is a reason Cat bought out EMD.

 

[DMiller]

I keep in contact on the power gen side here, SMRs are becoming a positive light on that line of thought. Small Modular Reactor steam plants. Fuel assemblies 1/4 of size I dealt with, 1/4 the volume in the vessel, passive safety features and 120-250mw generator capacity for each plant to be set in small groupings of two to eight where never all off at same time on 24 month fuel cycles. Colorado is looking to this to close out their dirt burners as between elevation and terrain PV not a reasonable choice nor is Wind as the eastern plains in some months winds stay well out past 40mph where turbines cannot handle. Missouri may end up with a few of those but previous employer will not be owner. Cannot do away with Base Load power stations, they are what keeps the power on grid smoothed and stable, ofherwise voltage and available wattage swings insanely, appliances and service equipment do not handle that very well. Inverters and rectifiers will not remain functional to that either, load swings are their destruction.

 

[Truck Shop]

I like my wife's analogy of power and what the average person knows about the power grid.

{When there is a power outage it all boils down to a simple Pop Tart, if that toasters doesn't work
and the coffee pots don't work life as we know it just came to full stop. Phones at the call center
would go nuts, 90% of those came from the affluent part of town. Just whining when's the power
going to be back on. It all cooks down to a Pop Tart and that toaster better work}.

 

[Truck Shop]

Yes there are way too many people on the planet if they all want to live the life of those in developed countries.

My point is we are becoming undeveloped because too many are sucking the tit dry. Our electric
generating power grid/infrastructure is ancient, We stopped building major dams in early 80's so
most are 80 plus years old. We are popping people out like rabbits. Developed? One good hack
could shut the system down in a heart beat, then where are we, {in the dark ages}.

 

[cfherrman]

Wind power is not cost effective and probably never will be unless the cost of power is artificially raised high

 

[JD955SC]

Some may find this over the top.

My theory-I was born in 1956, the U.S. population in 1956 was 164 million. 66 years of my life has gone by
and now the U.S. population is 334 million. Life in the U.S. in 1963 was very simple, low stress. I went to
grade school at a small 6 room building, there were about 13 kids in my class from 1st to 6th grade. As a
kid we played with what ever there was to make a game. Most parents drove at least a five year old car and
they only had one car. Families ate dinner at the table, only phone in the house was hanging on the wall.
Moms used clothes lines to dry the wash. Neighbors would help neighbors especially when it came to farming.
You went to school snow, ice, rain or shine-schools were not shut down because of bad roads. You ate
before you went to school and you ate what was on your plate period. Just a few things I remember from
that time.

Problem----There's too many people, too much population. Causing some real bad thinking. JMO.

the problem isn’t too much population. Our resources can easily handle that when it’s done right. Our problem is that the majority of the population is now completely out of touch with what it takes to make a comfortable life and these people ignorantly but proudly stand in the way of everything that is needed.

a good example is farming. Our farms are insanely efficient and produce massive yields. The problem that many poor people have in America is too much to eat. When else in history has that ever been a problem for the poor? But the ignorant view our large scale agriculture as the problem and want to knock it down. Do that and tons of people in the world will starve. We live in a golden age of plenty that has never been known. Most of the opulation, particularly the big city dwellers are so ignorant as to have no idea of what it takes to deliver a full selection of fresh produce, fresh meats, and a huge variety of convenience foods to every grocery store but they sure do know that “farming is bad”

Boris Yelstin visited an average American grocery store in the end years of the Soviet Union and remarked that not even the most elite in Russia had access to anything like it. He was floored.

 

[DMiller]

Was just a article on Veolia, they are pretty certain the oncoming "Tsunami" of turbines cannot be dealt with as a recycle plan. Current Subsidies are drying up for construct of these and the Tax Code relief for major utilities going to 'Renewables' also running out of steam. Previous employer has four PV centers, Two in Columbia MO(Co Owned with city one in New Florence MO and one in O'Fallon MO. None of which have generated enough revenue to show as a benefit. 1.3mw O'Fallon, 1.8mw New Florence, close to 3 mw of both CoMO stations where those are relative to sun and season of year of daylight. My ex co workers still see the grid power distribution maps at work, stated the four never reach Peak Power more than 40% of the month or greater than 60% of daytime hours NONE have ever met design output. O'Fallon is ten years old, New Florence two, CoMO is closer to twelve, where it is seeing Failed Cells and failing structures already. Odd issue with PV, once site is constructed the Cells become HAZMAT once placed in service as to replacements. Failed cells have Cadmium, Iridium, Lead, Zinc, Copper, among other materials upon a Silicon plate sealed under a silica glass lens. NOT recyclable currently according to the engineers.

 

[DMiller]

the problem isn’t too much population. Our resources can easily handle that when it’s done right. Our problem is that the majority of the population is now completely out of touch with what it takes to make a comfortable life and these people ignorantly but proudly stand in the way of everything that is needed.

a good example is farming. Our farms are insanely efficient and produce massive yields. The problem that many poor people have in America is too much to eat. When else in history has that ever been a problem for the poor? But the ignorant view our large scale agriculture as the problem and want to knock it down. Do that and tons of people in the world will starve. We live in a golden age of plenty that has never been known. Most of the opulation, particularly the big city dwellers are so ignorant as to have no idea of what it takes to deliver a full selection of fresh produce, fresh meats, and a huge variety of convenience foods to every grocery store but they sure do know that “farming is bad”

Boris Yelstin visited an average American grocery store in the end years of the Soviet Union and remarked that not even the most elite in Russia had access to anything like it. He was floored.

I get such a Laugh when those morons at the store Describe Meat as NOT animal, they do not see the slaughter so believe is Man Made. Same with finished goods as down all the canned or boxed aisles, not farm but 'Factory' produced. Blind to reality.

 

[mekanik]

The pics I posted of the generators are from the island of Haida Gwaii to the north of Vancouver Island.

 

[chidog]

Dams? They want to destroy more of them, that is the number 1 cleanest and best, conventional electric power source, that most people understand.

 

[DMiller]

This I retrieved from the company trash some ten years ago and was dated then
Shows the basis of grid and system zone Operators
Is prior to TX connection to others and prior to so many facilities closing, being remediated and few of the renewable stations

 

[DMiller]

Segments for reviews

 

[John C.]

I see a copyright year of 1996 on those maps. I would be curious about how much different the transmission lines are now. I can only remember one line going in on the west side of Washington in my lifetime here.

The US population growth is shown on the the Census page as gaining one birth over one death every 22 seconds.
https://www.census.gov/popclock/

In my mind I see the electric supply problem as using huge production sources and then sending the power vast distances. I know it was necessary because the generating source had to be close to the fuel source. At present, the only viable future will be small nuke plants that will provide power for limited amounts of area. Think PUD ownerships and coverage areas in the ranges of a few hundred square miles. Then you have redundancy in the supply side. That is also the only way I see the rapid advance of electric transportation.

As far as people getting soft from the easy way of life in first world countries, that is just the nature of the human condition. If you aren't getting better, you are getting worse. Ever wonder why native American cultures are dying out. Kids that grew up on subsistence living are just not going to stay in that life style when they are fed, dry and warm for a change. Once fed, always hungry.

Going to the issues of things going backwards and they controlling everyone else, tell me how well that worked when they tried to keep people alive with vaccinations. How about trying to stop the slaughter going on with gun violence. They haven't even made a decent proposal for that yet. In essence there are no government mandates that will work unless there is a majority of population willing to go along with it.