Rehabing Case 855D; tracks are very noisy; need some advice please

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Dunno viking1 . . . fan bearings perhaps? I wouldn't run 'til you get it sorted, sounds 'orrible.

Cheers.

 

[viking1]

Yair . . . Dunno viking1 . . . fan bearings perhaps? I wouldn't run 'til you get it sorted, sounds 'orrible.

Cheers.

Thx Scrub. It really runs fine besides the horrible noise. I also pulled and redid the leaking top cover/shaft on the injection pump yesterday; we had thought lack of fuel was making it miss originally. Have had a long screwdriver (used as listening device) all over machine but cant pinpoint the noise......

 

[kb9tci]

It almost sounds like the fan is rubbing the shroud a bit. Any wiggle in the fan if you loosen the belt?

 

[viking1]

New videos w side covers removed

I eliminated the water pump, fan, and alternator by removing the belt and running the engine (noise still there). Here's a couple more videos w side covers/floorpans removed......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLO9aI9l_H0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_hw2OPxE7Y

 

[alrman]

Any smoke out the exhaust?
Does it start easy?
Drain the oil & check for metal.......
Inspect the valves/tappets.
If nothing shows up with the above - May need a compression test as well.
Maybe a broken flexplate..... :beatsme

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . viking1 loose flywheels can make some strange knocking . . . dunno, just guessing.

alrmans suggestion to check sump for metal I think would be next obvious step . . . the squarking sound that prompted me to suggest bad fan bearings (and kb9tci to mention fan rubbing on the shroud) seems absent in those latest clips?

Whatever happens you will keep us posted? . . . it's a new one on me trying to do diagnosis from half a world away . . . hope for your sake it turns out to be not as bad as it sounds.

Cheers.

 

[viking1]

Ya. Starts easily, no excessive smoke, no metal that we can see in the oil. I'm leaning towards flexplate too because of the squealing, but also maybe a fuel knock?

 

[old-iron-habit]

Thx Scrub. It really runs fine besides the horrible noise. I also pulled and redid the leaking top cover/shaft on the injection pump yesterday; we had thought lack of fuel was making it miss originally. Have had a long screwdriver (used as listening device) all over machine but cant pinpoint the noise......

Did the noise start when you started it after working on the injection pump leak? If so that is where I would start looking for the solution. Possible that something inadvertly changed in the injection pump causing a bad fuel knock or possible the shaft is seizing. Good luck and keep us posted on what you see and find.

On another note, I just read thru the whole post written over a couple years. If you get around to welding bar on to the grousers be sure to keep the ground cable on the grouser you are welding on. You do not want to take a chance on an arc straying thru a bearing trying to make contact.

 

[viking1]

Did the noise start when you started it after working on the injection pump leak? If so that is where I would start looking for the solution. Possible that something inadvertly changed in the injection pump causing a bad fuel knock or possible the shaft is seizing. Good luck and keep us posted on what you see and find.

On another note, I just read thru the whole post written over a couple years. If you get around to welding bar on to the grousers be sure to keep the ground cable on the grouser you are welding on. You do not want to take a chance on an arc straying thru a bearing trying to make contact.

Thx for the input, Old iron. Noise was actually before we pulled the pump. When checking into the sound, we saw the top cover/shaft were leaking, so we fixed it thinking we had a fuel knock (not the case). I just got done pulling the belly pans; converter is coming off tomorrow (yikes!!). We'll disconnect/inspect that, and then run the engine to see if the noise remains.....

 

[alrman]

Ya. Starts easily, no excessive smoke, no metal that we can see in the oil. I'm leaning towards flexplate too because of the squealing, but also maybe a fuel knock?

I'm not sure if you have drained the oil to come to this conclusion. You won't see the metal on the stick. You will need to drain the pan to see if there is any metal from a bearing failure. I would do this first - before pulling the convertor. If the flexplate HAS failed all drive & hydraulics will stop. If it IS failing, ie cracked, you may get some debris from the hole in the bottom of the bellhousing.
If the engine oil checks out OK, my next port of call is all the tappets, & I still would do a compression test before I would pull the convertor.
Hard to call without being there to really hear & feel the machine .....

 

[DMiller]

Noise was most severe from the front as the first video ran, the second added a screeching noise. Get the pan off, look at each journal on the crank individually, I am suspecting you will find it in the first three rod or main.

 

[viking1]

Torque converter pulled, and engine started; noise remains. We will get the engine out of the machine in the morning and onto the stand. It will be interesting to see what's actually wrong; i.e. a spun crank bearing, rod bearing, etc et al. Not a fun job in 105 degrees.....

 

[viking1]

Noise was most severe from the front as the first video ran, the second added a screeching noise. Get the pan off, look at each journal on the crank individually, I am suspecting you will find it in the first three rod or main.

Actually has some play in the crank at the flex plate (more than seems normal). Don't know if that is significant or not.....

 

[viking1]

I'm not sure if you have drained the oil to come to this conclusion. You won't see the metal on the stick. You will need to drain the pan to see if there is any metal from a bearing failure. I would do this first - before pulling the convertor. If the flexplate HAS failed all drive & hydraulics will stop. If it IS failing, ie cracked, you may get some debris from the hole in the bottom of the bellhousing.
If the engine oil checks out OK, my next port of call is all the tappets, & I still would do a compression test before I would pull the convertor.
Hard to call without being there to really hear & feel the machine .....

Had to pull the converter off to get the engine out anyway; was hoping for a miracle.....

 

[viking1]

OK, engine pulled.....


Pan removed, and metal galore......


And the winner is rod bearing #5 (completely gone). That's the last remaining chunk of rod bearing sitting perpendicular atop the main journal.


Everything else looks OK, but I'm sure the metal munched all the bearings/journals. Disassembly and then off to the machine shop to find out what oversize I will need (everything original; made it to 3500+ hours).....

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . viking1. You don't mess around.

I have no knowledge of your engine but it should have done way more than 3500hrs before such a failure . . . I would be looking for reasons, like where does that journal lube from? . . . and make sure all galleries are clear before reassembly.

Cheers.

 

[viking1]

Yair . . . viking1. You don't mess around.

I have no knowledge of your engine but it should have done way more than 3500hrs before such a failure . . . I would be looking for reasons, like where does that journal lube from? . . . and make sure all galleries are clear before reassembly.

Cheers.

Don't have time to mess around scrub; onset of early 50's light's a fire under your a**....

I agree; thinking maybe the hour meter is inaccurate or was off for awhile (machine is a 1989; had it since 98). Its seen pretty sporadic, heavy use though. I moved 150-200 tons of dirt in a day and a half (in 100+ degree temps) the day it failed last week. We have another 200 to move just waiting; so need to get it back in service. Hopefully the machine shop will determine proper flow of the galleys & journals.

BTW we also spent several hours the last two days working to get the below tractor functional. Terex 72-51AA that belongs to a friend. Runs great (Detroit diesel), but doesn’t move very well under its own power; seems to be a converter issue. Threw in 5 gallons of fluid today, and it improved quite a bit....

 

[alrman]

Nasty!
Make sure you take a good look at the camshaft lobes & the lifters.
A new oil pump should also be considered.
Hope the crank checks out OK for you........ those you tube videos may have cost you more than you realized.....
:drinkup

 

[viking1]

Nasty!
Make sure you take a good look at the camshaft lobes & the lifters.
A new oil pump should also be considered.
Hope the crank checks out OK for you........ those you tube videos may have cost you more than you realized.....
:drinkup

Have it completely apart now. Cam/followers/pistons & rings look great; bearings and crank journals not so much. It had definitely been apart before; the cylinder that failed has a different piston than the other 5. It will get a new oil pump for sure; taking the whole kit & caboodle (block, head, crank, cam, rods & pistons) to machine shop in the morning. Hopefully they can get the crank cleaned up again. I doubt it could have been too much more harmful to run it longer for diagnosis, but it wasn't optimal in hindsight......

 

[DMiller]

OUCH!!

Knew it was serious, sorry to see I was correct as to a rod bearing failure. May want to opt to a fully reground crank or to go with a used replacement polished and new bearings set to common size. Most likely a field fix failing rod bearing before, just did not or could not get crank clean enough to keep from repeating.