Problems with people not paying....

[DuraMaxMan66]

Anyone else ever have any problems with people not paying for a job? I did a job this summer for a guy that moved into a new house. i had 2+ days of skidsteer rock hounding + a few hours of manual raking. I presented him with the bill the day after i finished and he stated he would mail it back to me within 3 days, I stated that was fine as long as it was no later. 5 days goes by I call the guy no answer after i left a message. Call the next day no answer + message. Still no call back.:cussing About another 4 days later i said that i'd had enough and if he didnt want to pay me i would return his "yard" to its original state.:idea By this time he has some other contractor prepping the yard for grass with seeding and straw. i loaded up a very full t-tag load load of garbage dirt with rocks and sticks and other crap. Drove to his house backed into the back yard and dumped it right in the middle in several piles and drove off. He still didnt even call after that haha.Anyone else have any stories of this and what they did about it?

 

[kamerad47]

That is the whole problem with the business!!https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/images/smilies/banghead.gif

 

[rino1494]

With a attitude like that, and you wonder why you don't get paid. You have alot to learn if you want to stay in business. You should give people 30 days net at 18% annually. Things come up and situations occur. You shouldn't keep hounding people for money like that. When it gets close to 30 days, we call people up and give them a courtesy call to let them know that it is close to 30 days 9 times out of 10, then will send a check right out. You need to be patient with people. With your actions, don't expect to get much work.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but you have a long road ahead of you in the biz and you are going to come across alot of people that are slow payers.

BTW.........where at in NEPA are you located at ??

 

[jmac]

I agree RINO, the home owner could of called the cops on you for dumping material back on his yard. If you wanted to get paid before you left you should of told him that when you started. 30 days is good IMO. When I am doing a smaller job for a home owner and want to get paid before the day is up, I mention that up front. I also try not to move my machine away before I get payment. Polite and nice all the time works better, To be honest I have never had a home owner not pay me, now General Contrators! :Banghead

 

[mikef87]

I don't deal with homeowners, but I was doing a job for a Property owner. The owner wanted it done quickly so we worked 12 hour days 6 days a week to get it done. We had a contract that said when the foundation was dug we got a check, when the foundation was backfilled another and etc. Well we dug the foundation got a check for it. The next payment was to backfill and grade the basement to +/-1". We did it never got paid so we left the d3 in the hole in the middle of the floor and parked the pc600 at the only entrance to the site. Got a call at 6 am to move the machines told them to pay up. They said no. Got another call at 10 a.m saying a check was waiting for me if we moved the machines. It cost the owner $10,000 in back charges from the concrete floor company, materials that couldn't be delivered and other tradesmen who couldn't get on the site because someone blocked the gate. I try and stick to a few good companies who are well known for payment. But sometimes you need to do some foolish things to get paid.

 

[jmac]

Yup, Mike GC's are a different animal. To them it is just about keeping your money. I have a few threads on this site complaining about them and slow pay. I still have open invoices from GC's. DuraMax was talking about a small residential job so the rules are not the same. On residential job's I try and get 1/2 up front if I don't know the customer and have a contract stating payment arrangements. You would have to agree that giving everyone the benefit of the doubt is a good idea. Sounds as though this customer DuraMax is talking about had some issue with him or the work, why would he not ask him to finish the job? He had someone else finish putting the yard in, what DuraMax could of done is find out what that problem was. Every job is different and every customer is different and there are some bad customers out there.

 

[mikef87]

Yup, Mike GC's are a different animal. To them it is just about keeping your money. I have a few threads on this site complaining about them and slow pay. I still have open invoices from GC's. DuraMax was talking about a small residential job so the rules are not the same. On residential job's I try and get 1/2 up front if I don't know the customer and have a contract stating payment arrangements. You would have to agree that giving everyone the benefit of the doubt is a good idea. Sounds as though this customer DuraMax is talking about had some issue with him or the work, why would he not ask him to finish the job? He had someone else finish putting the yard in, what DuraMax could of done is find out what that problem was. Every job is different and every customer is different and there are some bad customers out there.

My cousin does work for home builders and he is always complaining about not getting paid, or they say they'll give you a check for $25,000 and they give you$ 5,000. I don't know how people sleep at night. I remember going 3 months without taking money for myself just to keep the money going. My name's to important. I'd rather have $2 in my bank account than have to worry about my machines getting repoed, or having to worry who I might run into when I'm out to dinner with my family.

 

[DuraMaxMan66]

With a attitude like that, and you wonder why you don't get paid. You have alot to learn if you want to stay in business. You should give people 30 days net at 18% annually. Things come up and situations occur. You shouldn't keep hounding people for money like that. When it gets close to 30 days, we call people up and give them a courtesy call to let them know that it is close to 30 days 9 times out of 10, then will send a check right out. You need to be patient with people. With your actions, don't expect to get much work.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but you have a long road ahead of you in the biz and you are going to come across alot of people that are slow payers.

BTW.........where at in NEPA are you located at ??

i was off on my days slightly....it was quite a few days longer than what i had said.....so all in all it was a little over a 3 week period....yes i agree with you on the 30 day deal....we talked up front b4 i had done the job and said that he was going to pay me fairly quick after completion.....several things tho,number 1, I am a new guy into the business I'm 20 years old and this was a business i started after people started asking me to come operate rented equipment for personal jobs at peoples houses. number 2 i had to stick my neck out and pay $1200 to rent the machine and attachment so you can see thats a pretty big hole in the pocket for a 20 year old college student new to business with a new truck payment every month, i think that would make anyone impatient to get their money back, and number 3, there was no communication between me and the guy whatsoever....if there would have been some communication it would have been a totally diff story but blowing people off like that is not nice. this guy was actually a interior contractor that had lived near my house and we shared land with each other to ride fourwheelers and asked me to do this when he built his new house next town over

 

[CascadeScaper]

There's where you made your first mistake. If you can't afford to rent the equipment out of your own pocket, don't. Stick it to them, make them pay for the rental upfront. This is a "pay to play" business, either you own the equipment outright or you pay for the rental when the bill comes due. If you can afford neither to float for 30 days until you're paid for your services, you shouldn't be doing it.

He has 30 days to pay the bill, any court will uphold that. He wasn't really in the wrong. So, you ended up eating the $1200 didn't you? That's what it sounds like, not how I would've played the cards I was dealt.

When I go to collect money, I don't get mad, I just make it an inconvenience for the customer or whoever to not pay me. I had a lawn customer that didn't pay me, so I drove to their house, parked the truck in the driveway, told them I'd be there until I got paid. This was after almost 2 months of waiting, I could have been much worse.

 

[DuraMaxMan66]

Yup, Mike GC's are a different animal. To them it is just about keeping your money. I have a few threads on this site complaining about them and slow pay. I still have open invoices from GC's. DuraMax was talking about a small residential job so the rules are not the same. On residential job's I try and get 1/2 up front if I don't know the customer and have a contract stating payment arrangements. You would have to agree that giving everyone the benefit of the doubt is a good idea. Sounds as though this customer DuraMax is talking about had some issue with him or the work, why would he not ask him to finish the job? He had someone else finish putting the yard in, what DuraMax could of done is find out what that problem was. Every job is different and every customer is different and there are some bad customers out there.

only part i was contracted for was the rock hounding and clean up, he had another contractor that he promised could take care of growing grass and tree and bush landscaping, they didnt have flower beds layed out so thats y i couldnt plant grass or i would have

 

[DuraMaxMan66]

There's where you made your first mistake. If you can't afford to rent the equipment out of your own pocket, don't. Stick it to them, make them pay for the rental upfront. This is a "pay to play" business, either you own the equipment outright or you pay for the rental when the bill comes due. If you can afford neither to float for 30 days until you're paid for your services, you shouldn't be doing it.

He has 30 days to pay the bill, any court will uphold that. He wasn't really in the wrong. So, you ended up eating the $1200 didn't you? That's what it sounds like, not how I would've played the cards I was dealt.

It wasnt that i couldnt afford it but when your a college student and you have to stick your neck out and trust somebody and they dont come through with it and you have other propositions for yourself it gets very stressful. It would prolly be different if that was my full time job, but for now my full time job is school. i did end up cornering this guy later on and he had some dumb excuse that somebody was after him and he was on the run and had to jump town for awhile, guess he was in with the wrong people or something and he did give me 900 in cash. so go figure....

 

[mikef87]

Just becareful with what you do. There's been plenty of times I felt like taking a machine to someone who owes me moneys house. People are to quick to call the cops and say you threatened them then you don't get your money and your out more money if you have to go to court or something. Just let it be a lesson learned. I think Microsoft has a format for a buisness contract. Either that or you could go to Staples, I know they sell pads of paper that are business contracts for contractors. Next time just call the building dept, on him if he's building a new house, or harass him in ways like that. Those are legal. Other than that, good luck with the business.

 

[DuraMaxMan66]

i think the dude had a nasty drug habit or something and thats why i acted the way i did about not getting my money....who else leaves town to run away from some one or carries that much cash on them? He was just being shady about the whole deal....so i kinda thought i might run into trouble

 

[jhill]

Anything over $1000 I get a deposit, usually enough to cover materials and rentals. My contract says payment is due upon completion of work. I send anothr bill after 30 days and a 3rd after sixty with interest. After that I send a copy of the paperwork for small claims court ( most of my jobs are under $5000) and give 10 days to payup. Has worked so far. Mosty of all keep it business like and keep the paperwork in order so you have a case in court.

Jerry

 

[atgreene]

Duramax, I understand you are just starting out, but it is best to learn it right the first time so you do not end up in that situation again. This forum is a great place to start so you can pick-up the proper business practices. That will ensure that you have a good reputation and are proffesional.

A couple things to keep in mind, it doesn't matter who you are, it is against the law in many states to work without a contract or to take more deposit than allowed. Case in point, in Maine contractors can only collect 1/3 up front, some states it's even less.

If you have a contract, you can then place a contactors lein within 90 days of leaving the job (Maine Law, every state varies) that allows you to stop all financial transactions on that property (loans can't be closed etc...). It is a great tool, but requires the legwork upfront in order for you to be able to take advantage of it. (Also allows you to collect 18 % interest on what is owed, more than any bank or investment will pay)

Another thing to keep in mind, no lowballing. Find out what others are charging and be competitive, not just a quick cash operation. You should be charging enough to be able to buy your own machine eventually, say nothing of the insurance, advertising, fuel, maint. and payments. If other contractors and your customers take you serious, you will get a lot further in this industry. If there is another contractor whom is reputable and you trust, try to sub-in on some of his work to learn the ropes.

Good luck, keep your nose clean, stay in school and stick around here, you'll learn alot.

 

[DuraMaxMan66]

thanks for the advice guys, i know i have quite a long way to go if I hope to have my own business somewhere else 8-10 years from now.....im picking up things from everyone else...so this is good.

 

[mtb345]

last year i did a job where i had to dig a foundation 15by18 the builder rented a pc40 i told him ill dig it for 400 bucks i was done in an hour he was alittle upset about paying 900 for one hour of work he would keep asking is there any thing else i can do i said yes if i dont get paid i can put dirt back in the hole he chose to payointhead

 

[atgreene]

There's a quote from Edgar Allen Poe that I always refer to when dealing with deadbeats who don't pay: A wrong is unredressed when retribution overtakes ones redresser.

In English, if you are so consumed in getting retribution that you ruin your life, you loose, no matter how much revenge you get. Don't get in trouble trying to collect, out smart them, don't out screw them.

 

[jmac]

You are a smart man atgreene :drinkup

 

[tuney443]

I've only been stiffed a few times in 33 years,I try to be reasonable at first,then some subtle loud talking making my point understood,then,the clincher if necessary.I will tell them that I will hound them till the day they either die or I die in that I will let everyone know they don't pay their bills;I will say this in front of their family,fellow workers,at ball games,in the supermarket,etc.It is NOT slander or libelous IF it is true and no legal eagle can dispute that should you be taken to court.You have to be sure you're right,the bill was not paid, and you are telling it like it is.Truth can be powerful stuff!!!