Perfect Cat dozer for land clearing jobs???

[zack-cat]

Ok guys, i hope this is the right place to post this but my question is i have a man that just bought a d5n with intentions of getting into the land clearing bussiness. he is planning on couple hundred acre tracts of pushing brush up burning it and running what i call a stumping blade through it (the big V shaped blades with teeth on the bottom) to get the stumps pushed up and possibly pulling a plow behing same dozer to be able to plant pines in it. Anyway his d5n is obviously not big enough and he needs something bigger and wants Cat and it has to have an A/C!!! i first suggested a d7R but soon realized he is wanting me to be his on call mechanic so i then suggested a d8k as maintenence is cheaper and they seem more reliable. I dont know much about this land clearing deal but he is wanting me involved as much as possible and he is a good guy and i really want to help him as he is helping me (paying me to keep his stuff running). Any input on the best choice of dozer would be awesome and any thing else you think might be valuable! Thanks guys!!!

 

[mitch504]

8s are what is mostly used for that around here.

 

[CM1995]

A D6,7 or 8 R would be my suggestion. Sometimes you can pick up 7's for the price of 6's because they are an in between size - it takes all the effort to move as an 8 but not as productive.

 

[Nige]

D8N's (if you can get one) are built like the proverbial brick outhouse and would have the power to do the work he is planning. The 8N was the last version built before the "electronic generation" came on the market.

A D5N will be as much use as a one-legged man at an a$$-kicking contest for the type of land clearing he wants to do, but maybe he's already realized that.

 

[Mike L]

What are the differences between the n, k, t, r, etc ?

 

[Vigilant]

Wasn't the D8K the last version of the flat-track version?

 

[Vigilant]

Yep, my memory serves me well some times. D8L was the first high-sprocket 8. I ran one for just a bit, and never really liked it. Went forward all day long, and got stuck if you even THOUGHT about backing up. I still prefer the older flat-track models myself.

 

[Nige]

D8K was the last of the dinosaurs. D8L was the first high-drive, introduced in 1982.
Then a few years (86-87 time frame) down the road everything got renumbered - The 8L became the 9N, the 9L became the 10N, and the D10 became the D11N.
The D8N was a totally new model introduced in 1987 to "plug the gap" between the D7G & the D9N (aka D8L).
An 8N has no relation whatsoever to an 8L, it's a much smaller machine.

Regarding relationships - 8N is an all-manual 3406 engine, 8R Series I is a 3406C engine, 8R Series II is the first electronic 3406E engine, latest model is the 8T with a C15 and all-singing, all-dancing electronics on everything.

 

[ben46a]

D8R 7XM serial # with an angle dozer, winch, and sweeps. U blade wouldn't be bad either.

 

[wilko]

I'm thinking of the saying "no good deed goes unpunished". You advise him on what to buy, then when it's too big it's your fault. The next job it's too small an you get blamed. It springs a leak, breaks down, runs out of fuel-all your fault.

 

[zack-cat]

wilko, thats kinda the thought i had in the back of my mind ever since i met this guy and he has been so gung-ho about getting into land clearing and me working on his equipment. its almost too much and kinda scary, i kinda wonder if he knows what he is getting his self into...

 

[Nige]

Ask him straight up is he prepared to shell out a minimum of $90k and maybe up to $125k for a dozer..? Because there are a shed-load of 8N's out there and that's about the going price for one, a good one would likely be at the top end of that price range. If the answer is no then he's under-estimated the finance required for the work he has in mind to do IMHO.

 

[PowderKeg]

When I was a land management forester with UCC way back in the day, the contractors I dealt with used D8K's (or similar sized) for shearing, especially V-shearing. You might get by with a 7 if running a KG blade in smaller/pine stumps, but a true V-shear needs horsepower and weight. D6 sized machines were typical for raking and bedding/sub soiling. Hang a bedding plow off a D8 and you're more likely to find a drawbar and lines dragging in the dirt at the end of a run - too easy to rip the plow apart if it hangs up/bogs down with all that excess hp. We're pulling a Marden sub soil plow with our old D7G, but I don't think she's putting near the hp to the ground that she usta-could. I still stress to the few guys that have run it to keep an eye out the back on the plow though. Haven't pulled it on cutover land yet, just reclaimed maneuver ground (which can be tough in it's own way), so don't know how the 7/plow combo works/feels on stumps.

 

[td25c]

My pic would be either a Cat d7g or the d8k . I really like a d7 size machine for all around work be it clearing or dirt work . They seem to be more agile in steep terrain & stay on top better in soft ground than the d8 . Haul it on a standard tandem tractor & lowboy . Not having any experience with the V- plow I cant add much but can see where the bigger tractor would be better in most cases .

I guess it would depend on the size of the trees on the clearing job and what future jobs might come along for the dozer be it clearing or dirt work to make the decision on the 7 or 8 ?

We use a Rome K/G blade with a fiat allis hd16 dozer (d7 size machine) for most clearing & dirt jobs .

69camaro uses a V-plow on a D7G , He might chime in with ideas & experience . www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?39600-V-Shearing-Blade

Of all the tractors & machines available ..... The military chose the tried & true Cat D7E tractor & Rome K/G blade for clearing operations in Vietnam http://www.59thlandclearing.org/pages/history.htm

59th home page http://www.59thlandclearing.org/home.htm

 

[mike_belben]

i hope no one will mind me piggy backing onto this thread. im consider very similar work myself. ive never been in the earthmoving industry, but ive always been a mechanic/fabricator and building some hobby hydraulic machines has led me to bigger equipment, since the fluid power isnt different, just scaled up.

990 miles away from here, i have land of my own to clear and do sitework on in a rural area with cheap land thats booming with population growth. im very close to purchasing a TD15B with drott 4in1. im also currently looking at a 1981 linkbelt 2800A with detroit 3-71. both machines are owned by the same friend who has a large scrap shearing operation. i can have the trackloader down there for about $8500 ready to work. the digger runs and operates without any substantial leaks or issues. it will cost $5300 to buy, but it is 107" wide and im thinking the haul will be $5k. not sure how bad local hauls will be with the overwidth permits, i have no experience there. if the machines die, im capable of most repairs (still have a machine shop) or parting them out for high dollar. that im good at.

i do have a single axle kenworth W900A, 350 small cam and 15sp RR, but no CDL yet, (will get soon) and im not certain how much pin weight a single axle can handle, its a neway air ride20k rear on 11R22.5 rubber. id need a detach to do my own hauling, but im fairly confident out there it can be done with farm tags. theres very little law enforcement, nearly none actually. my 401k can purchase and transport the equipment in cash, my land is paid for and i have no mortgages or payments on anything. i run the dually on waste vegetable oil and can easily convert the dozer and excavator so overhead is almost none. other equipment includes an articulating 4x4 forklift, an old kubota with a 3pt, chisel plow, york rake, etc. and plenty of pro saws and arborist gear. i could also buy an older 6 way dozer or just fab a hydraulic 6 way blade to go behind the tractor for finishing work. hell id turn forest into lawn if i were paid to.

dumptruck, detach and skid steer are the big items im missing. i guess im wondering what kind of money there is in land clearing. i would have no clue how to price that, but i know i could do it cheaper than anyone making payments. mostly wrestling with myself here, but appreciate any comments, good or bad.

 

[CM1995]

A 2800A specs at 43,500 average, that's going to be pushing it behind a single axle with a detach.

How much veggie diesel can you produce? Will both machines be working at the same time or just one? I would figure being able to produce at least 50 gallons a day for every day of operation if you are running just one machine at a time - that's just for the equipment, more for the truck if you will be using it also.

You will still have overhead - insurance, tags, maintenance, repairs, office expense (however small), corporate fees, taxes, etc. You will want to operate under an LLC for corp./legal protection.

Don't know the local market you are going to be working in so can't comment on what land clearing goes for since trees and vegetation vary widely from region to region.

Don't assume just because you have no payments you can operate cheaply than everyone else. You will be using older equipment that will be more prone to breakdowns and land clearing is rough on equipment.

Also don't assume that your competition with much newer, more efficient equipment is not paid for either.

I would gain experience working the iron on my own property and work the bugs out of the equipment before I took on a paying job. Learn what each machine is capable of and your daily operating expenses.

Not meaning to blast you, just get you oriented with some of the challenges you will be facing.

 

[mike_belben]

thanks a bunch for the response, i appreciate it. answers:

middle TN, probably similar terrain as north alabama.

id be the only operator on a here and there basis when a job comes along that works for me. as the owner and mechanic, i fancy myself someone who treats his stuff well, or atleast doesnt abuse it.

i have 2000 gallons on hand now, about 150 gals a month coming in. working on a grease processing partnership that involves a tanker truck, so id like to think the volume could be quite a lot.

i definitely intend to work our own place first and blow all the weak hoses on my own liesurely schedule. if it doesnt seem profitable to run them for hire afterward, i will only be buying the track loader, as the excavator is quite a burden to transport due to width and length when the boom is layed out.

 

[ttazzman]

I have seen guys with "payments" work the machine for under cost just to Make those payments.......and when they finally go out of business.....3 more spring up in place of them

 

[pafarmer]

8s are what is mostly used for that around here.

2x.......

 

[Andrew_D]

"Here" the dozer of choice is the biggest that can be moved on a single trailer without having to remove blades, etc due to weight.

Typically this means a D7 sized machine. Maybe an old D8 if the guy has a tri-axle lowbed.

Andrew