online bidding

[DMiller]

I have had a little issue with auctions like that. Not naming names but I shot a loball bid that was accepted on a machine that suddenly failed to meet minimum that was never listed. Same machine six months later one state over same pricing listings with bids LESS then what I had bid prior only to show back up a few weeks later in the original state. Have not used the site since. All the GSA GovDeal etc. auctions are under the same base company just different servers.

 

[RTSmith]

Does make you wonder. I've bought at Ritchie and on the old Iron Planet. Good success both places. But a few months ago saw a piece I could use on Auction Time. A unique kind of tug/pull tractor (Sellick). Went looking for comps, and looked on Ritchie, and found that same exact unit has being sold on Ritchie about 6 weeks earlier. Serial number was listed, hours the same. Called the guy selling on Auction Time, and he told me it was a bank repo machine, and couldn't have sold on Ritchie.... We bought it through Auction Time. And then to top it all off, both auction descriptions listed it as a 4x4 machine. Once we hauled it cross country and got it here, found out it was a 4x2 tractor.

 

[jaclo]

We've done it a lot. My advice - GO LOOK.

 

[catwelder]

We've done it a lot. My advice - GO LOOK.

there was some good looking stuff I was watching but it went for a little more then I thought it would but theres a lot of stuff going up to bid I guess end of the year and the companies wanna get rid of stuff that's been sitting for a while

 

[xr4ticlone]

Does make you wonder. I've bought at Ritchie and on the old Iron Planet. Good success both places. But a few months ago saw a piece I could use on Auction Time. A unique kind of tug/pull tractor (Sellick). Went looking for comps, and looked on Ritchie, and found that same exact unit has being sold on Ritchie about 6 weeks earlier. Serial number was listed, hours the same. Called the guy selling on Auction Time, and he told me it was a bank repo machine, and couldn't have sold on Ritchie.... We bought it through Auction Time. And then to top it all off, both auction descriptions listed it as a 4x4 machine. Once we hauled it cross country and got it here, found out it was a 4x2 tractor.

You got lied to on a couple things. Obviously the 4x4 issue. BUT, it wasn't a bank repo...they bought it at Ritchie thinking they'd do better on Auction Time...OR they assumed it was 4x4 as well and then didn't want it when they got it.

I've seen more things END UP at RB than bought there and sold on another auction.

Here is the thing that you all need to understand...at this point in time....

RITCHIE BROTHERS IS FULL RETAIL!

That said, there are some things that slip through the cracks and can still be bought at RB at a decent price. But it's not mainline items like backhoes, forklifts, dozers, loaders, or excavators.

 

[Welder Dave]

I wouldn't agree Ritchie Bro. is full retail. Some items may be bought back but there are some good deals that are less money than they'd be a dealer or private seller. Ritchie Bros wouldn't be the largest auction company in the world if they were constantly buying stuff back and contradicting their own policies. Ritchie Bros will give a guaranteed minimum to sellers if they have a minimum of 5 (I think) major pieces of equipment to sell. I wonder if that's why you see some machines more than once? Still not on the level but they sell billions dollars of equipment year in, year out. They couldn't do that if buyers thought they were being ripped off or paying too much. Some people do pay too much but the bulk of buyers are happy or they wouldn't keep going back.

 

[Crummy]

I moved quite a few pieces out of Ritchie and got to know them at my local site. If they catch you doing a straw purchase you won't sell another piece there. Ever. Now that doesn't mean they don't have some pretty creative ways to get the price up- including moving it to another location that they feel has a better market. Ask them if they have a list of transporters that they use and they will say "no, we don't". Yes, they do.

The one big (and I mean BIG) thing: they, for some reason, partnered with uShip. "Get a shipping estimate before you buy". What a joke. I can't tell you how many transport quotes I made and got back "What! That's 4x the quote I got before I bought it!". Many, many, many pieces just go back up the next auction because someone, say, in Michigan "scored" a big piece of forestry equipment for $9,000 in Washington and finds out from someone like me that it's really going to cost $21,000 to get it to them, not the $3,400 quote they got from Dipwad Logistics. Or Cat mining trucks in California that were "quoted" $25,000/ea California to the east coast (I can't remember where exactly) that were actually going to be $75,000+/ea to move. They might even have staff that works with buyers- "oh, that's too bad. Well, I'll tell you what for $x,xxx we will do a 'Ritchie-rebuild' for you and get your money back out of it and maybe a little more at our next auction. If you sign up today I'll waive the $75/day we're charging you to store it, don't tell my boss though- it'll just be between us..."

Buyer/seller premium on the first sale, buyer/seller premium on the second sale.........

 

[Welder Dave]

That would make more sense. I've seen equipment moved to a separate area and still be there month's after the auction. I like that Ritchie Bros doesn't spend a lot of time waiting for bids. You want it, you bid or too bad so sad. It has to be a pretty big ticket item for them to be spending time trying to coax out more bids. I've been to some of their 4 day sales in Nisku (Edmonton) and it's their biggest auction sale in N. America. They go through thousands of items. If they did it like a farm auction, they'd be there for 2 weeks. I hate they added buyer premiums but were smart to cap it on big ticket items. Under $2500 items pay a higher premium which really sucks.

 

[kjkoch]

I have purchased a lot of equipment over the last 20 years from Ritchie, all good for the most part, you just have to really check them out. Some of them will have records in the office to help you decide what is worthwhile. That same company sold a few machines on Iron Plant, when I looked up the inspection reports, I was disappointed, they were not as truthful as I would have been. I am a firm believer in what goes around, comes around. I did some work with a company recently that would buy on Iron Planet, we painted some of them and did some repairs. Then tried to resell them hoping to make a huge profit.We had several unhappy buyers along the way. The ones that did call me, I told them exactly what I thought about the machine and what we did to it, but most buyers that ended up with the winning bid, never called. They wanted to run it part time from the internet a few hours a week, not really hands on. So needless to say, after 18 months, they decided they didn't want 3 full time mechanics anymore, so we got laid off. And they are still sitting there with about $4 million in equipment and buildings with no one there. It was the best thing that ever happened to me.

 

[xr4ticlone]

There are few if any 'mainline items' that I can buy on RB and get more for that selling them to customers.

I'm not alone. Talked to the used equipment manager from a major Deere dealership down here...he had bought 3 excavators at RB and thought he stole them last year for $20k under what they were worth...each. It took him a year to sell the first one for a profit of $2k. That's with financing...that's just one example.

RB is also IMHO being less cautions about letting people put just about any old thing in the auction.

I'm not saying there are never deals to be had there. I'm saying that too many people have the opinion that RB is a wholesale price. Same for most auctions. Too many customers are buying things at action with the idea they can dump them for profit or break even whenever they want. That's not the case.

 

[xr4ticlone]

https://www.rbauction.com/2015-KOMA...d=10139576&id=ar&auction=FORTWORTH-TX-2017226

Here is a great example of what I'm talking about. 500 hour Komatsu 138 that I saw in Dallas last time around. $127K plus $1k in RB fees.

I had found 8 of these machines with duel bi-directional wet kits...some had rubber tracks and they had blades as well. I could have bought them for $90-$92k each. Heck they were advertised for $99k each for 6 moths before they all disappeared. I saw both in person...both were identically nice and clean.

It happens a LOT more than you want to admit...you can by nicer machines for less than what you pay at RB. There's no great deals there. I go to meet people and see if something falls through the cracks, but going to buy something with the idea that it's gonna be a wholesale price is IMHO misguided.

 

[Welder Dave]

There are few if any 'mainline items' that I can buy on RB and get more for that selling them to customers.

I'm not alone. Talked to the used equipment manager from a major Deere dealership down here...he had bought 3 excavators at RB and thought he stole them last year for $20k under what they were worth...each. It took him a year to sell the first one for a profit of $2k. That's with financing...that's just one example.

RB is also IMHO being less cautions about letting people put just about any old thing in the auction.

I'm not saying there are never deals to be had there. I'm saying that too many people have the opinion that RB is a wholesale price. Same for most auctions. Too many customers are buying things at action with the idea they can dump them for profit or break even whenever they want. That's not the case.

There's big difference between buying to use yourself and a dealer/individual buying hoping to make a profit. It's no different than people buying an older machine and fixing it up trying to make a profit. Whether it's construction equipment or restored/customized cars, most of the time you never get your money back. It's always a gamble and never a sure thing. An auction unequivocally tells what the market will pay for a particular machine at that time. Sometimes low hour machines at RB still have factory warranty, especially if they're being sold by a dealer. I know Finning has sold at RB with claims of remainder of factory warranty. In your example above the Deere dealer (who thought he stole them) paid 20K less than he would have had them listed on his lot yet in your opinion it wasn't a good deal at RB because the Deere dealer took a gamble that didn't pay off?

Ritchie Bros is an auction company. If you have something to sell, they don't tell you it has to meet certain criteria to be in their auction. They do give ample time to inspect and encourage buyers to fully inspect anything they are considering purchasing. A lot of smaller auctions you're lucky if you have the day before to inspect them.

The 500 hour Komatsu you mention above , did the machines you found have only 500 hours as well? Maybe it still had warranty? What's a brand new one cost? Obviously there were at least a couple people interested in it and the buyer thought he got a good deal or he wouldn't have bought it.

I don't know but it sounds like maybe you've lost sales because customers have found something to suit them at an RB auction. If not it sure seems like you have a bias against Ritchie Bros but not sure what it's based on. Are they perfect no but who is. It's like people knocking the Cat high track machines, sales numbers don't lie.

 

[wlhequipment]

As someone already pointed out, Iron Planet is part of Ritchie Brothers. I've bought from RB a few times, been real happy with it.

 

[John C.]

The dealers around here generally liquidate stuff at Ritchie Bros. and I haven't seen any of them buy something there to fix and re-sell. The phrase that I use is that a dealer does not have the ability to generate the mass stupidity found in a auction atmosphere. The other issue is that internet auctions have changed the dynamic of a local auction in that sales happen nation wide now. This makes prices less susceptible to weather and attendance issues.

As stated above, the auction market can work well for someone needing a machine to use and who knows what they are looking at and can stay in a price range that will give the machine a chance of making a profit. If you want to buy something to fix and sell, you need to get to the owner of the machine before the auction salesman get there.

 

[kjkoch]

Just trying to flip them didn't work out too well for the few I've seen try. We did buy quite a few, put some money in them and ran them several years before we sold them. That worked out worked out really well actually, most were resold for what the initial cost was, so the cost per hour under production was pretty low. Out of the 30 machines we did that way over a 15 year span only one turned out to be a dud, a Cat 330BL that had final drive problems about 2 months after we got it. But I think it pretty much broke even in the end. That construction company did really well with that approach. You just have to look at them real close and adjust for what you think its going to cost to get it back in good shape. I left the auction may times with nothing but an irate, desperate potential buyer, because I saw or heard something I didn't like in the machines he was interested in. A lot of times for some of those guys it becomes an emotional or ego thing. It was never that way for me, it wasn't my money, but I really didn't want to buy something that was going to cause me a huge headache. I seem to be a magnet for those already.

 

[CM1995]

It's always a gamble and never a sure thing. An auction unequivocally tells what the market will pay for a particular machine at that time.

Exactly Welder Dave just like the construction business that these machines are used for.

The advent of the internet auction has changed the scene in my opinion as markets are very different geographically, which changes the dynamics of what a piece of iron is worth. What is in high demand in one area might not be worth scrap across the scale in another.

I've seen well used iron go for crazy amounts on IP while other pieces are sold at asking price, with no rhyme or reason to me basing that on my local needs. Obviously other buyers saw the value or they got caught up in the bidding frenzy.

Never get into a bidding war at an auction when you know the going price is above what it's worth, that winners trophy don't pay the bills. The key to winning deals at an auction either live or online is to know when to walk.

 

[catwelder]

Exactly Welder Dave just like the construction business that these machines are used for.

The advent of the internet auction has changed the scene in my opinion as markets are very different geographically, which changes the dynamics of what a piece of iron is worth. What is in high demand in one area might not be worth scrap across the scale in another.

I've seen well used iron go for crazy amounts on IP while other pieces are sold at asking price, with no rhyme or reason to me basing that on my local needs. Obviously other buyers saw the value or they got caught up in the bidding frenzy.

Never get into a bidding war at an auction when you know the going price is above what it's worth, that winners trophy don't pay the bills. The key to winning deals at an auction either live or online is to know when to walk.

if I'm doing it online I'm be at the equipment websites looking at prices and going off that which everyone else probably will be to though

 

[check]

Lots of good info on this thread. I bought an midi excavator and skid steer from Ritchie Bros and numerous skid steer attachments. Guys like me with time on their hands who buy old iron for their own use can make out fairly well. The kind of machines I buy are 15% of new, IOW tired old junk. I don't get caught in the ego/emotion aspect of auctions and often leave disgusted and empty-handed.
I think RB's fees are exorbitant and their support for uship (which should be spelled with a "t") deplorable. Their "auction results" page is a valuable resource, I even look there when I buy elsewhere.
Here in Montana old iron is hard to find and expensive locally, so having that many machines in one location for immediate sale is attractive and the cost to ship justifiable. Bozeman auctions are generally overpriced and I usually buy as far away as Chehallis Wa. or Williston ND.
I bring a few tools with me and drain a little oil out of plantetaries to inspect for metal particles. I try to get there early on inspection before they start everything with ether and jumper cables so I can get an idea how hard they are to start.

 

[Crummy]

I've been doing some work with an outfit that I used to haul for that does after-sale logistics stuff- teardowns, "get that POS running so they can load it" stuff. I've noticed the smaller local/regional auction houses that do "fleet reduction", "bankruptcy", "plan closing", "municipal/State", etc. sales have been the place to buy right now. But, I think anything over .50/lb is too much at auction. I looked into one auction place in Portland, OR that sends me all kinds of crap in the mail- fine print in their terms "30% buyers premium" and "11% payment/documentation fee" Hah! No thanks.

Another thing (brilliant, I think) with RB is RBFS. Easy in-house financing I'm pretty sure helps drive the prices up there a bunch.

 

[DMiller]

Buddy of mine had not spoken to me for five years called last evening. Reason for no speak was I told him NOT TO BUY a 977K on a gov Deal auction that I had the opportunity to look at. US Navy surplus w MP bucket, looked great EXCEPT, I started seeing little things so I went to have a look as was close to a place wife and I were headed for a wedding.

Would not start as usual as batteries were dead, was not allowed to furnish or try to jump off. Did a walk around checking fluids or lack there of, filter dates had been written over with marker but could make out they were all over 5 years old, engine oil represented that as well. The rails were odd being dry pin, They were humped up rather than laying from being pulled into a line, then I saw a major no-no, rust from the Turbocharger/elbow joint and noticed someone had it off RECENTLY. Suggested my Bud bid really really low as he probably did NOT want the machine, money pit. He bought it telling me how much a Non-friend I was possibly costing him a great inexpensive machine.

He bought it, had to have it pushed/dragged onto a trailer for shipment(extra$$). Got it home and as I figured engine was seized. Rain thru the open stack over a LONG period of time, turbo was rusted/corroded solid where he opted for ANOTHER surplus buy replacement crate engine. Got that in, ran it for a week and rails NEVER came loose, pounded the finals, destroyed the right side bearings so off those came, new final bearings, a bull gear then replacement rail chains and shoe bolts(shoes were great), ALSO had to cutting torch the old rails off as would NOT flex or pivot on pins. Now he already had twice what the machine first cost and was OVER what he could have bought local for but was "a Low Hour Machine", next to drop corrosion on the Radiator, lower core plate to core failure, while in that found an oil leak on a hose for the oil cooler, turned out needed ALL the hoses as were all beginning to seep or show rusted steel cording under cracked skins.

He just sold the money trap, when done had over four times the buying price, used it three times, made NO MONEY with it, bought a 963B(LOCAL) while working this creation and made enough to pay the repair bills. Still has the 963, still earning a living with that and a excavator he bought last year. His call to me, a long overdue(his words) apology.