new Deere controls?

[ASPHALT04]

Operator or Driver

That brings a question that has been on mind for several years..........with all the advancements in equipment (Not saying that all are bad) are we doing away with equipment "Operators" and turning into equipment "Drivers"?
Just because someone can drive something doesn't mean they can operate it in my opinion!:beatsme

 

[Northart]

Operators or Drivers ?

Hello Asphalt04,

Yes, that is the trend, electronics to reduce the training or skill acquistion time.

Us older Operators are retiring faster than the replacement generation. For a net loss of skilled people.The same symptom is happening in other industry elsewhere. The WW2 Baby Boom Generation.


Hello Geno,

Hope you don't get too wound up, it's only a discussion. :drinkup Happy Grading .

 

[ASPHALT04]

Hello Asphalt04,

Yes, that is the trend, electronics to reduce the training or skill acquistion time.

Us older Operators are retiring faster than the replacement generation. For a net loss of skilled people.The same symptom is happening in other industry elsewhere. The WW2 Baby Boom Generation.


Hello Geno,

Hope you don't get too wound up, it's only a discussion. :drinkup Happy Grading .

I'm really not all that old, but I started off in an old 12 "knuckle Buster" w/ pony motor starter. I got turned loose scarfiring and regrading a 2-mile strip of an old chip-sealed road. Running a grader to me is something "You feel in the seat of your pants" and you either have a feel for it or you don't. There is no real inbetween. With experience some are just faster than others.
The guy I learned the most from I used to watch because I chased behind him with a 3-wheeled roller busting chunks. He would get really offended if you had to get off the roller and do any hand work.
I had many guys say they could run a grader when in reality all they could do was drag the blade on the ground. They could see a grade if you stapled it to their eyeballs!

 

[ovrszd]

John Deere can target me all they want for grader sales, they are wasting their time.

They make good agriculture equipment , and they should stick with that in my opinion.

I'm not sure they are specifically targeting you as much as a comparable experience level. Your last sentence is why Deere makes a good grader. They tend to be more user friendly than most, just like their tractors.

I've ran their 670B, 770BH, 770CH, 770CH Series II and now I'm 200 hours into a 770D. All were new when I started running them. Every model change has been an improvement. Sometimes it's me that needs to conform rather than the change being ineffective. But that's my age showing.

As for which brand is best, I wouldn't claim any knowledge of that. But as for pickups, anyone would know that a Cummins Dodge is head and shoulders above a Powerstroke Ford or Duramax Chevy.

 

[alco]

As for which brand is best, I wouldn't claim any knowledge of that. But as for pickups, anyone would know that a Cummins Dodge is head and shoulders above a Powerstroke Ford or Duramax Chevy.

You know, right up till this, I actually thought you knew what you were talking about...lol. Just buggin ya.

Brian

 

[ovrszd]

You know, right up till this, I actually thought you knew what you were talking about...lol. Just buggin ya.

Brian

I threw that in there hoping Northart was a Ford/Chevy man. Heheheheheh....

 

[Bellboy]

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but those look much more comfortable and less confusing then the cat's! I've heard a lot about this new JD 'G' series, if a lot is just that they have new electro hydraulic controls. Nothing about new positioning for the clusters and what not. For those of you who have seen it at CONEXPO, enlighten me. I will always be a JD guy, and I can't wait for the 'G' series!

 

[ovrszd]

I live near and travel on Interstate Hwy 35 which is a major North/South artery thru mid-America. I see a lot of new JD equipment going South. Everytime I see a grader I check to see if it's the new G model. All I see so far are D models. I was told a year ago that it would release in December 2008. Evidently that hasn't happened since the factory is still shipping out D models?? I'm anxious to see it also. Just like I was anxious to see the M model Cat.

 

[G Model]

I have run both machines and the deere controls are very nice. I do not claim to be an operator but the steering on the deere was much easier to get used to in the short time I got to run each. because Im not an operator I did not have as much trouble with the cat controls and could probably get used to everything but the steering, if you have ever run a dozer it reminds me of a cat d5c hystat transmission control.

 

[ZX850]

New G Series Components

I have to agree with Northart that the older cat graders lasted for a very long time and were built with larger components to stand the test of time and punishment. Something that I have noticed is that as time has progressed many manufacturers have decreased the size of the components and in doing so decreased the life of the machine. I just sat down the other day and reviewed something I found interesting in relation to where Cat has gone with the M series and where Deere has gone with their G series. While the Deere D series was a dramatic improvement over the previous C series grader that Deere produced it still had a little ways to go in order to prove to everyone that it would last over time. What I have seen is that on the new G series Deere has increased the size of everything on the machine from clutch plates, pin/bushing diameter (including never grease pins to eliminate grease zerks and increase life) to engine displacement to extend life farther than ever before. Unfortunately Cat has done the complete opposite of what they have preached for years on their graders...cat always said displacement and size of components means life...guess they are developing Alzheimer’s in their old age of 100 on the M series because they have reduced everything in size from pin diameter to engine displacement and as a result most likely reducing the life of the machine....it is disappointing but everyone has their moment of greatness and fall from glory...glad to see Deere putting quality into a product and listening to the customer when a machine is designed and built(Customer Advocacy Groups played a huge part in developing both the D series and improving it in the G series) instead of just telling the market this is what you will run because this is the future...get used to it we are the best because we are Cat and you will do this....those days are over for every manufacturer and the companies that understand that and listen to the customer base and design their product to meet the needs of their customers will prosper and grow.

Just a few of my thoughts,

 

[G Model]

I think what has happened to Caterpillar is there is a new breed of engineers coming up throught the ranks, posssibly long gone are the guys that worked on the pre G's the G's and even the H models. Dont know if this is true but it could be I suppose.

 

[ovrszd]

I agree with ZX850. That's what I mean when I say Deere is more user friendly than Cat. I think Deere listens more closely to what operators want. They worked very hard thru the last three model changes to make their machines more like Cat which was widely known as the leader. Sadly, as ZX850 stated, Cat meanwhile has let their ego get in the way of logical progression. Hopefully they'll turn that mentality around. We need aggressive competition by manufacturers. That results in better machinery for us to operate regardless of what brand you prefer. Deere's entrance into this market has forced Cat to progress. I think we'll also see more out of Volvo which will again force everyone to constantly improve. It's a win situation for us operators.

 

[Deereman]

I was at the factory in davenport in september and they were just about to switch over to the G- graders and already going to the K- loaders. And the reason you are still seeing alot of D's is because I was told deere builds to orders instead of stock piling like other brands do. And there was quite a few d's left on the yard(in other words full) And all of those were sold.
And like ovrszd said it good to see more companys upping the antee cause in the end it makes for a great product. Just like what toyota did to GM and Ford. Deere has come a long way since the old 570's..
And ovrszd, you can drop a gold bar in a pile of sh!@ and it still be a pile of ****. Talking about Dodge :stirthepot :shf lol

 

[G Model]

I know he's gonna chew me up and spit me out for saying this, but I really wish we could get Northart on a new Deere G Grader , and give his Honest opinion good or bad. Im not nessesarily talking about the new controls, heck I would love to see him running the traditional ones. I know it's not gonna be as reliable as some of those old G Model Cat's, but we have to realize nobody builds graders like that anymore, not even Caterpillar. In my humble opinion and my limited experence ( 26 in heavy equipment and ten selling Graders, the new Deere comes closer than any others, and I think that is reflected in them being the only major manufaturer to be taking significant market share away from them. I also know they Don't build machines as big as Caterpillar and they might not work for some of you but ,Im just talking about in the class size they represent. Norhart be Gentle this is just a friendly Discussion. I wouldnt be intrigued if I dind't think you were a good operator and didn't know what you are talking about.
Scott

 

[MKTEF]

I have to say this thread is a bit more relaxed than another one in the grader section.

I have said this before, but will repeat it:
I know for a fact that there has been a lot of very experienced operators over to Preoria telling Cat what they want in the M's.
I know that 3 operators from Norway has been over, tested and given advice to Cat on the M's.

That said, i also have a feeling that theese three has had a very big impact on the design.
A so big impact that the M's look like they do.
I now get the feeling that a huge amount of the operators don't like it. Your home market...:usa

Just to give u an idea of how the grader market has changed over here:
Normaly there is 4-7 graders sold every year.(Total in Norway)
2007 was extreme for Cat, they delivered nearly none.(M was delied)
Last year around 30 graders was delivered
And they are continuing in the same pace this year.
Seems that all the old graders is changed in 2008/2009.
A huge number of old G's and H's is available for export.(Cat is not allowing any one of them to be sold here!)

If Cat havent made the M's ,i think Cat would have lost the whole grader market over here. All the operators demand joysticks, and Cat was the last to deliver it.
Now the operators are complaining on other topics with the M's...But thats another story.

I agree with you regarding this topic, some conservative users will go over to other brands because they have a option to what u want.
Days when Cat was the best is gone, they ain't bether than any other brand.
But there are still some guys who got the yellow fever.

 

[Soldati06]

wow thats pretty awesome i bet it doesn't take long to figure them all out and get the "finess" touch to it

 

[Alberta]

I'm going to a demo of the new Deere grader this coming week...can't wait to get in and try one. I wonder if the Deere dealer would take 6 Cat grader on trade :canada

 

[Randy Krieg]

Alberta

You're breakin my heart dude... , but honestly I understand your frustration. I know you have roads to clear and that can't be done when they're in the shop hooked to a laptop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!or torn down.

Our rental Hitachi with only 690 hours on it went down yesterday. My blood was boiling. I wanted a 330 Cat. Equipment division got a better rental rate on this Hitachi and it was a shorter mobe. None of that mattered yesterday to our onsite mechanic or me. I only have so many days and our iceroad goes bye bye.

We had to come in today due to -80 windchills and our soil testers were freezing to death....
Best of Luck, Randy

 

[Alberta]

Sorry to break your heart Randy...... But with all the still ongoing issues with these machines, I'm seriously starting to feel like defecting to one of the other camps. Just last month alone we had over 250 hrs of downtime. This week-end we had to change a couple of check valves because of the aluminum bodies were failing...just over 2250 hrs. What's next ?