Mulching - "The Daily Grind"

[treemuncher]

That a Komatsu 200? We have a 220lc3 stroke delimber.

Most fecon heads I've seen ran off excavator power.

PC200LC6. I've been to demos where they showcased mulcher heads running off of the same machines from the machine hydraulics. I laughed and shook my head as they nibbled away. I watched them spend over 10 minutes on a 16" diameter stem and progress through maybe 2' of material. Back then, with my smaller engine and older head, in 10 minutes I would have eaten the entire tree in that amount of time. Running off of machine hydraulics vs a dedicated powerpack is nearly the same as a 5 hp push mower vs a 15' batwing with a 120 hp tractor. If you have the time, you can get it done with less but if you want efficiency, dedicated power is king. I let the excavator engine do what it is designed to do: move the machine and swing the head, that's it. Otherwise you're trying to regenerate rotor speed while picking up the boom or moving stick out. That's just a parasitic loss to the hydraulic efficiency which results in really slow performance. If all you're doing is grass and small materials (under 2"), a powerpack won't make much difference on a larger hoe.

Example: This section of a job would have been weeks without the powerpack. I was done in a couple of days, even with chain saw time. note the amount of rock outcrop - ate plenty of that too!

I’d be interest to hear how your industry has changed from ‘97 to now? It seems like every Tom, Dick and Harry with a CTL has a mulching business now, some do good work, but a lot of them don’t. Or they are pushing their services where conventional clearing clearing would be better (Horse pastures, hay ground, tillable farm ground, etc.) Has this had an impact on your business or are you in a different market altogether?

When a lot of skid steer mulchers started hitting the market around here, maybe 15 years ago, it started educating the general public. That actually helped my marketing as many people could now see the services that I had been offering for 10+ years at that time. That resulted in more local work for me instead of hunting jobs up to 5 hours from home. Life got easier. Over the years, I've seen countless numbers of people get into this business and bail out of it. They're chasing a gold streak that runs through a really deep manure pit but all they see is dollar signs until they realize how deep that pit really is. They take a hit for $25k-$75k or more in repairs and they are out. I've experienced it, I'm always ready for it and I persevere through all of it no matter what hits. Experience is the best teacher and I've earned my degrees. They were not handed to me.

Along with ROW work and new site development, I do lots of pasture conversion work and overgrown field reclamation. Mulching is the best way to convert wooded ground to pasture with minimal evironmental impact and the fastest way to healthy grass. One of my farm customers can usually set his cows out within 2-3 months of me finishing my work. Customers just cast seed directly on top of the mulch that I've mixed into the first 1/2"-1" of soil and nature does the rest. Really thick beds of mulch will retard grass growth for 2-3 years but after that, it takes off thick as can be. Chemicals can be added to compensate the mulch in order to burn it down faster and make it suitable for immediate grass growth.

I've been reclaiming an overgrown golf course in stages over the past couple of years. As soon as I'm done, my customer rechops with a low set flail mower, adds his "secret mix" (likely enzymes, fertilizer & lime) and in 3 months he has a brand new section of his course being maintained and nearly ready to play. I've got another upcoming stint over there very soon. I'll be sure to post some pics of that work.

 

[skyking1]

Not having all the right tools was a huge handicap for the skid steer crowd.
They make a nice product in the right conditions, but all of your examples were too steep, wet, whatever for them. Also the 220 reach is golden.

 

[treemuncher]

I put new shoes on the Barko in December. Not a whole lot of tread height difference but the new tires really do so much better in the soft conditions. They were worth the cost & labor. I used the Menzi with the grade bucket as my tire tool. 20 ply 28L-26 Logstompers don't slip on well in sub-freezing conditions. Without the Menzi and the Rototilt coupler, I would not have been able to change these out by myself.

New tire in front, old on rear


Ready to start new tire installation


Inner bead is on. Ready to set outer bead on with the bucket.


Now the fun part - time to set the beads and inflate. The blast tank won't do it but a partial can of ether certainly will!

 

[treemuncher]

I forgot I had this one on YouTube

 

[Acoals]

Experience is the best teacher and I've earned my degrees.

What is your opinion of skid steer mulching? Is a properly set up 100hp CTL with a mulcher a worthwhile tool? Obviously it is not going to compare to the dedicated pieces that you run, but for the cost is it reasonable? I have thought of the possibility of adding that capability to what I do as a small (currently one man) dirt moving outfit, mostly for the purpose of diversifying beyond being dependant on the new housing market. It would probably cost anywhere from $50-75K to get set up with that, and I am very aware of the "deep manure pits" and general lack gold streaks.

 

[mowingman]

My experience with a CTL/mulcher, was not too good. On one large property, the landowner rented me a Kubota 95 with an FAE mulcher head. Maybe it was just the fact that it was a Kubota, but I found that it would not do well at mulching much of anything over 4" diameter. I did some larger Mesquite trees, and it was slow as all get out compared to a dedicated forestry mulcher I had used before. This application is very hard on machinery, and I just don't think a CTL is built tough enough, even with a "forestry package" on it. I went through one Kubota CTL/week. After the 5th machine, I gave up on the CTL and went back to a Rayco 100. The Rayco, while about the same HP, was much more capable on the site. I found that a 125Hp tractor with a 16' batwing was just about as good as the CTL rig, and a lot faster.

 

[treemuncher]

What is your opinion of skid steer mulching? Is a properly set up 100hp CTL with a mulcher a worthwhile tool? Obviously it is not going to compare to the dedicated pieces that you run, but for the cost is it reasonable? I have thought of the possibility of adding that capability to what I do as a small (currently one man) dirt moving outfit, mostly for the purpose of diversifying beyond being dependant on the new housing market. It would probably cost anywhere from $50-75K to get set up with that, and I am very aware of the "deep manure pits" and general lack gold streaks.

My second machine in mulching was an ASV 4810 with 105 hp, about 40 gpm @ 3500 psi. I replaced it with a Fecon/Rayco FTX140/C140 running 140 hp, 69 gpm @ 6000 psi. Productivity on a 6" elm went from 2.5 minutes to 30 seconds. A dedicated machine means dedicated pump(s), no more overheating, good AC, pressurized cab, increased head torque, winch, properly guarded and a machine built for forestry work without much more weight. The floating head on the FTX meant a lot less stress on the carrier machine and a better ability to follow natural grade variations. I made more money and saved my customers money. I have absolutely no use for a skid steer in forestry work. Just my opinion from my experiences. I removed a lot of repair time and hassles moving to a dedicated machine.

If you want to be successful, specialize in one service. You will make more money and have fewer troubles and increase your efficiency. I was given this advice when I first started in dirt and I was trying everything to stay productive. That advice worked extremely well for me so let me pay it forward to you.

If you want something for light clean up (briars to 2" material), a skid steer is a suitable tool if used with care. No matter what you do, a skiddy will still be nothing more than an agry chihuahua with an elephant bone that's prone to overheating. It's just not as efficient in comparison. For a little more money, I could set you up and ready for business with my FTX140 that would include 2 working mulcher heads, one parts head, stump grinder attachment, extra teeth, filters, misc new parts, new rails and sprockets on a skid and tons of extra parts from a burnt machine. It also has a new, updated mulcher pump with less than 50 hours. It's ideal for 6"-8" and smaller material but I have cut as large as 26" material with it. I moved it with a 10 ton tag trailer and my F550 for years. Weighs under 15k lbs and will operate up to 45 degree slope (and holds good oil pressure at that angle). PM me for more info if you have an interest.

 

[skyking1]

Thanks for that. People seem to discount their time. I think it is valuable too.

 

[mowingman]

That Fecon in the photo is just like the one I ran for many years. That was a great machine, mine had a JD diesel in it. I am glad it was always leased and not purchased though. I bet we had the rental dealer's mechanic out twice/week to work on that Fecon. It had a lot of issues, which I heard were warrantied from the Rayco factory, the ones who made it. It had frame work, both track motors replaced, fuel tank work, and I can't remember everything else that broke on it. Still, was a very capable machine when running.

 

[treemuncher]

That Fecon in the photo is just like the one I ran for many years. That was a great machine, mine had a JD diesel in it. I am glad it was always leased and not purchased though. I bet we had the rental dealer's mechanic out twice/week to work on that Fecon. It had a lot of issues, which I heard were warrantied from the Rayco factory, the ones who made it. It had frame work, both track motors replaced, fuel tank work, and I can't remember everything else that broke on it. Still, was a very capable machine when running.

Mine has had all of the updates done. Updated finals, track adjuster relief valves and floating head conversion provided by Fecon factory guys at my shop. I did the frame and tank updates.

No such thing as a mulcher machine without issues. As my HE mechanic neighbor stated, "every time you turn the key on those machines, you're self destructing them with impact and abrasive wear!" That why I charge what I have to, to keep up with what it costs to keep them running and profitable. It is not a maintenance free operation.

Deere 4045T @140hp. Excellent engine.

 

[Acoals]

For a little more money, I could set you up and ready for business with my FTX140

No, no stop, I have that HE addiction you mentioned earlier as well, I am trying to recover, and this isn't helping . . .

 

[treemuncher]

No, no stop, I have that HE addiction you mentioned earlier as well, I am trying to recover, and this isn't helping . . .

At least it's an addiction that can actually pay for itself and do some good! Imagine, if you will,.....a 6,000 psi 65+ gpm snowblower attachment on that little bad boy!!!! If not blowing chips, it could be blowing snow! Just a little taste...........makes that imagination run wild with ideas...

 

[skyking1]

No kidding. Go watch a few videos of those, or the amazing Menzi 'tire machine' a few posts up and gotta-wanna-have-it kicks in.

 

[CM1995]

As my HE mechanic neighbor stated, "every time you turn the key on those machines, you're self destructing them with impact and abrasive wear!"

That mechanic must've worked on trench rollers as well.

 

[MG84]

I have absolutely no use for a skid steer in forestry work. Just my opinion from my experiences

From everything I've seen and experienced myself I'd agree, every skid steer I've seen that has been used for mulching looks like its been to hell and back after 500hrs. I'd even go as far as including bush hogging work as well. People are crazy about these front mount bush hogs on skid steers, not me. You're constantly running in a plume of dust and debris, they don't follow the ground well, and take a relatively narrow swath. On top of that is the overheating, plugged air filters, damage to rubber tracks, etc. Sure they may have their place for soft or steep ground, but I see people out bush hogging a 20ac field with a CTL, man what are you doing lol.

An old cheap 4wd farm tractor with an 8-10' heavy bush hog will cover a lot more ground and cost far less per hour to operate. If you want to get really serious pick up a decent used 4wd tractor with a forestry package and a Brown tree cutter, probably for half what a new CTL + bush hog/mulcher would cost....

 

[treemuncher]

I'm rained out today. Reminds me of a wet job I worked last April. Wet ground needs tracks, not rubber tires. Some jobs are little more than a slop fest. This one was particularly wet but I was able to stay afloat without ever needing to winch out. I don't like being "temporarily immobilized".

Pasture/hay ground reclamation job from last April down near Memphis.

This is why I have a pto driven pressure washer and 55 gallon drum of water on my service truck. Jobs like this need regular glass maintenance in order to see what I'm trying to do. This is still relatively clean in these pics. Windshield wipers will just score the Lexan so I try to never use them unless in heavy rains.







If it's not too wet, I'm usually able to erase my tracks instead of leaving a bunch of ruts. Just a tad soft next to the ditch that was backed up by the dam critters. I was wishing that I had my wide tracks on for this section of the job but I was able to do well with the higher ground pressure narrow tracks.

 

[treemuncher]

"Pucker Factor" job: I saw these photos on an old backup yesterday. Old flip phone photos. I had a rather steep lot to clear off with the big hoe. There is a 15' sheer drop off at the edge that drops to the water that can't be seen. I well remember having to push and pull the machine with the cutterhead so that I could "safely" travel this hillside. I also had houses on each side of this tiny lot to watch out for.

This is likely one of the steepest slopes that I worked with the 200. Every time the tracks would start to slide, my rear iris would suck up fabric!

 

[CM1995]

Had to be young when you did that! I'm old enough and wise enough now to say "Nope". However back in my 20's I would've bailed off that slope with ya.

 

[cfherrman]

Funny thing about photos, never really shows the grade right. It's probably steeper than it looks.

 

[treemuncher]

Funny thing about photos, never really shows the grade right. It's probably steeper than it looks.

True. That one was very difficult to walk/climb up. I had to work my way down, leaving "parking stumpage" to rest against while working. Those were erased on the way back up the hill. It took a fair amount of pushing to get back up.

On the other hand, the "After" drone shot made this hill look nearly impossible. It was only about a 25-30 degree slope which is easy stuff. 35 and over become more difficult.

Before:


After:



It really was not all that bad. Just a lot of cantelope sized rock that I reduced to baseballs and golf ball sized materials. I left as much grass/vegetation base as possible to limit any erosion.