Long 510 3cyl diesel wont start after changine injector

[fordman49450]

Ok, this is a friends tractor, it's a Long 510 3 cylinder diesel. apparently 4 years ago it started running rough and he shut it off. It never would restart after that. It sit for 4 year till now and it was out of fuel.. Dont know if someone siphoned it out or if that was the initial problem. I worked for Ford and worked on the international diesel engines. Well, first thing I did was check compression on the tractor, all were real close and wthin spec's. Then I use a bench tester and found that the cylinder number 3 injector just pushed out fuel, there was no pop=off. The other 2 injectors popped off at about 3,000 psi (500 bar) I then adapted the bench tester to the injection pump and I got over 3800psi. So, we replaced the bad injector with new copper washers and seals. Bled the system as far as we knew was correct but she wont fire. it wont even try to fire. Just blows white smoke out the exhast. We tried spraing a bit of WD-40 in it and it didnt do anything. This has the thermo heater for the intake air. We tried that and could see it was working but this tractor wont even try to pop off. if you remove the injectors and hook them up to the pump and crank the tractor over you get a nice 3 port spray pattern from them, but when you install them, the tractor doesnt even try. I was hoping anyone out there had any idea's I was thinking maybe put soem oil down the cylinders since it sat for long but it had good compression readings. Any help would be great as it is Blueberry season and he needs this tractor running to operate a spray rig. Thanks in advance.

 

[mitch504]

Have you tried spinning the engine with the injector lines just barely loose, and snugging them once you see fuel with no air. I would also try using starting fluid (ether) as I haven't gotten good results starting anything but chainsaws with WD-40. Also make sure it is spinning fast enough.

 

[fordman49450]

yes, I have broken the lines loose and I get fuel out of them. I didnt try ether because I guess i'm gunshy with that on diesels. the tractor seems to be spinning over plenty fast enough. all you see out of the exhaust is white smoke. I thought maybe the rings were washed a bit from sitting and such and the one bad injector so I put a little bit of oil down each hole but it made no difference. Today I'll try a shot of ether. if that dont work I'll tow it around the yard for a bit to see if I can get it to start. the exahust manifold and pipe get plenty warm to burn you so it's developing heat in the cylinders, just maybe not enough. Thanks Mitch so far for your help.

 

[fordman49450]

Ok, I got it started this morning. After letting the battery charge all night and with just a spray of either it fired right up.. Then I noticed the Oil pressure light on so I shut it right off. the oiling system wasnt pumping oil. This tractor has sit for 4 years. I took the oil filter off and filled thes stand pipe which backfed the pump. the she got oil pressure. Now I notice that on the bottom of the pump there is a housing that is held on by a nut and a banjo style bolt. I think it might be a pressure regulator of some sorts but anyways it's leaking where that mounts to the pump. I called longparts.com and they said good luck because they didnt sell any gaskets for it. Does anyone know where I can buy individual parts and such for injection pumps like on this. This is a 3cylinder Diesel 510 tractor. thanks

 

[mitch504]

HEY! thepumpguysc

You'll end up in a fuel shop probably, though if it is a banjo bolt it is probably just copper washers. DON'T unscrew anything on the injector pump that you aren't certain what it is. Sometimes things on the outside are hooked to things on the inside! (If I had learned this the hard way I wouldn't admit it on here.) You need to attract the attention of a fellow on here called thepumpguysc ,pumps are what he does. What kind of pump is this? For that matter, what engine does this tractor have?
Good Luck

 

[Iron@Dirt]

The tractor is a Fiat, made in Brasov Romainia. Once you get air in these pumps, like changing filters etc they can be real buggers to prime. as far as bottom leak, best I can figure you are talking about the timing retard (dont mess with) or the injector line, use the same thickness washer or bolt could hit pump head.

 

[pugsley442]

I have a 510 it kept failing me in the field. Can't remember how many time I have drug it home. I have replaced fuel pump as it seemed like it ran out of fuel I can manually pump fuel and have no air at lift pump in fitting get air bubbles at injectors. I have done injector pump. I can't get it to run on ether. It cranks over and puffs white smoke. Any one advice on what I am missing.

 

[thepumpguysc]

iron> The device on the bottom is the timing advance mechanism.. it does have a paper gasket between it and the main pump hsg.
The banjo type bolt has a few orings on it and the "nut" has a grommet type gasket under it..
If you send me your address thru a Private MSG or email, I'll send them to you.. I've got piles of um'..

 

[pugsley442]

bleeding air from fuel system

I have a 510 it kept failing me in the field. Can't remember how many time I have drug it home. I have replaced fuel pump as it seemed like it ran out of fuel I can manually pump fuel and have no air at lift pump in fitting get air bubbles at injectors. I have done injector pump. I can't get it to run on ether. It cranks over and puffs white smoke. Any one advice on what I am missing.

having trouble bleeding air. Drug tractor 5 miles exhaust got hot oil light went out water temp gauge also rose. Shot ether then pulled more still no luck.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Pugs>> when you changed the filters.. did you put the new oring ON THE FILTER or up in the filter head?? if you put it ON THE FILTER, theres your problem.. it must go up in the filter head and then the filter sandwiches it in.. I'm assuming of course you have the filter assembly that has the long center bolt and a bottom cap for water..
You said, I did the injection pump..please clarify.. did YOU do the pump or you HAD IT done??? did it work since you did the pump?
I'm betting on the oring placement in the filter hsg..

 

[wrwtexan]

I have made the timing advance gasket out of unused gaskets I keep from overhauls. Use the advance mechanism as a guide and with a SMALL ball peen hammer, tap around the edges of the holes to cut the gasket. Last Long I had in the shop was a pain in the A@@ to prime after filter change or pump repair. It is a model DP (correct me if I'm wrong pumpguysc) CAV injection pump. Bulletproof little pumps which are easy to work on short of internal repair IMO.

 

[thepumpguysc]

WRW> you are correct.. they ARE bulletproof.. the only thing that will slow 1 down is dirty fuel..
btw> its a CAV "DPA" and NOBODY knows what it stands for.. I was at the factory taking an update course on a new style pump they came out with and someone asked "that question" and the instructor couldn't come up with the answer.. He said his "best guess was".. Diesel Pumping Apperatus..??

 

[Morepower]

WRW> you are correct.. they ARE bulletproof.. the only thing that will slow 1 down is dirty fuel..
btw> its a CAV "DPA" and NOBODY knows what it stands for.. I was at the factory taking an update course on a new style pump they came out with and someone asked "that question" and the instructor couldn't come up with the answer.. He said his "best guess was".. Diesel Pumping Apperatus..??

Pumpguy, My Long 510 has fuel pouring out of the injector pump so I figure a re-seal is in order. The impression I have is that you work on them on a regular basis and some have tagged you as the expert so I was wondering if I could get your opinion on the following. I'm seeing new pumps advertised on eBay for around $550 and a shop I talked to wanted over $300 to put the seals in. Are these guys out on line on their prices? It seems that for a couple hundred more the new pump is the way to go?

 

[thepumpguysc]

650. sounds about right going thru a shop.. don't forget the TAX they charge.
If you get 1 off ebay, make sure the #'s on your pump match theirs.. not JUST the engine type/model..

 

[wrwtexan]

What seals are leaking?? Top shaft seals are a thirty minute job and a front input shaft seal is a few minutes on top of pump removal from engine. My local pump shop owner gave me the last one I put in as he had a pile of them on hand. Bottom advance mechanism can leak and if you can't get the gasket, make one out of thin gasket paper with a 4 oz ball pien hammer.

 

[thepumpguysc]

a KIT costs about 23.00 + tax BUT.. 95% of those pumps need more than a "KIT".. 7135-110.
Liner, blades, metering valve, throttle shaft and the top cover reamed and bushings installed..

 

[Morepower]

At first I thought it was the top cover and shaft seals. However, I cleaned up the area an can see that fuel is coming out of the Auto Start Retard Device. What started as a drip last year is now a small light trickle. My major fear is that when I take the pump off I will have timing issues when I put it back on. I had a guy that rebuilds tractors tell me that as long as I didn't move the engine (I guess he meant rotate) the pump had to go back on in time???? Any comments??
The tractor runs fine, it's just leaking fuel.

 

[wrwtexan]

CAV's will only go back one way as there is an indexing pin which the drive head fits over. You can pull the pump off with the engine at any position and turn it with it off without losing time. Drive gear is captive and can't unmesh from cam or idler gear. Only thing you really need to do is mark static timing (pump housing to backing plate) before removal. Screwdriver or pick makes a good locating scratch. What is this Auto Start Retard Device? I've pulled or field resealed many CAV's and don't have a clue what you are referring to.

 

[thepumpguysc]

On the advance, the Long uses a manual start retard device inplace of the head locating screw.. it "reroutes" the transfer pump pressure to retard the timing for easy start up..
MP.. I don't think THAT SEAL comes in the kit any longer.. I have stacks of them if you need one.. or 12.. lol

 

[Morepower]

The ASRD looks like a small pipe (about 1.5" dia. and 2" long)molded to a mounting plate with a cap screw on each end. On my pump its on the bottom side.
That's good news from both of you. Thank you so much, I feel much more comfortable pulling the pump now. It looks like it's going to be a couple of weeks before I'll have the time to pull the pump. I'll keep you advised, especially if I need to get a seal from you.
Thanks again