Leaking Foundation

[Cat420]

Let's see if anyone has an easy solution to a problem on the project we are working on. In addition to adding on to a house built in the 1800's, we are trying to make it so that the old basement stays dry. There's a little that we can do with grading to keep the water away, but the old house sits on a 2 foot thick stone foundation. There are several areas where water pretty much runs in through some gaps.

Is there any kind of stuff that we can spray or inject from the inside to seal up cracks and spaces in the rocks? Digging down and doing something from the outside would be best, but is way outside the time and money budgeted for the job.

Here's another twist, the new basement floor sits about 18 inches below the old one. There will be a ramp down to the new one and we are putting a drain so that if the old basement floods it will not run into the new one, but would prefer to prevent flooding. A little moisture is to be expected in an old house, but 4 inches of water is too much.

Anyone used a product that works for this sort of thing?

 

[Jeff D.]

Would installing a sump w/pump be possible in the old basement floor? Atleast that would prevent the flooding problem.

I wouldn't have much faith in anything that seals it from the inside, but maybe there's something that'll do it, on the market.:beatsme

 

[Steve Frazier]

I'd bet if you start sealing the leaks, new ones will result. The only reliable way to control this would be to install footing drains.

 

[greywynd]

With the stone foundation, I would also suggest teh footing drains, but I would also try to add the plastic membranes that are available, it would help ensure the water reaches those drains before it goes through the wall.

Mark

 

[Cat420]

Right now there's a pump that can be switched on in the floor. It's just bad when it doesn't get turned on until there's inches of water. I'm not sure why and automatic pump wasn't put in.

I'll try and get some pictures of the inside. This foundation was definitely built right. It's cemented together and all the stones are cut to give a flat face on the inside. For the most part the wall is solid and sealed, that's why I was hoping something could be put in the few bad cracks to keep the running water to a minimum.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed hoping that something can be done inside, but I kind of had feeling that we would be putting a bandaid at best. I really hate it when those kind of thoughts are confirmed on here. It's better than wasting time and money I suppose.

 

[greywynd]

The problem with any of the inside 'seals' like that is the water is still there, but now it builds up in volume (in pressure too, in a way) until it finds another route. Particularly with block walls, it just keeps filling up the hollow areas of teh blocks until it finds another exit, or it will start to create one.

I just finished a foundation job like this, when the hole was put through the bottom course of block to tie the drain into the sump pit there was a bunch of water came flowing out. This was in spite of the fact that things were pretty well dry on both the outside and inside of the block wall at this point.

Another alternative might be to cut/trench on the inside of the original basement and install drain tile inside instead. Due to a lot of manual labour, this is generally more expensive, but sometimes depending on what obstructions there are to deal with outside, this can be an alternative. Generally on these you want to trench 12-18" below the floor level, this way the drain is low enough to get any water from around the footings on the outside. (It should allow the water frm outside to travel under the wall/footing and into the tile.) I'm not a huge fan of this, I don't like 'encouraging' water to travel under footings, but if exterior conditions don't allow drains to be put in, sometimes this is the only option available.

Mark

 

[580bruce]

Water problems just suck.I would for sure put in a footing drain,in good,clean drain rock.Dont use plastic on the outside,it will not last.Try an asphalt sealer,maybe with a few coats.Check in your area to see if anyone sprays it on-like roof tar? I have seen gunite used before,but that gets priicey.Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[T Red]

I start a job like this by doing whatever it takes to divert surface water away from the house. Downspouts piped off. The grade falling away from the foundation.

I don't have any faith in the products that are applied inside the wall especially on a rock wall.

If you are going to the extent of doing the outside definitly do the drains as stated above.

The best product I've found so far for the outside is Grace Bituthene. It is a membrane that comes in rolls. a little hard to put on but effetive.

Good luck.

Tim

 

[greywynd]

Just to clarify further.....I'm not talking about rolled plastic, I'm talking about the plastic foundation membrane products.

Couple types that I know of and have used:
http://www.big-o.com/products_building.html
http://www.superseal.ca/dimpledmembrane.html

I'm in an area with heavy clay soils in a lot of areas, and with most of the work I do being 'retro-fits' access is sometimes an issue, so it's not always possible to get the ideal materials in for backfilling, or to remove the existing. Any that I've used this on (in combination with a good drain tile system) have had no moisture problems at all. In some cases it's been used along with a foundation sealer (was applied first), in some cases it was only membrane. I would guess that it's been 4 or 5 years since the first one I did this way, no problems at all.

Mark

 

[T Red]

greywynd, I like those products also. I did not realize that you sealed all the seams to create a large membrane. Might have to try that on the next house.

Tim

 

[greywynd]

It's not necessarily a cheap route.....I think it was $150 for a 25metre (about 75') roll for the last one I did. (trim and fasteners are extra of course) How I look at it though is if someone is spending hundreds, or thousands, to seal a basement, especially with the effort of digging it all up, then it's money well spent. It's an excellent complement to a good drainage system, especially in retro fit applications where often part (or all) of the job is done with wheelbarrows bringing in the crushed stone for the drains.

Mark

 

[Cat420]

The trench drain around the inside may be the best compromise. We could run it right into the pit that has a pump in it now. We could even tie it into the footing drains around the new foundation without too much trouble. It would obviously be best to cover the outside, but it's very hard to dig anywhere near the outside of old foundation without knocking rocks out and also as mentioned the time and money not being there.

If all we can do is keep water from building up and going into the new basement, I think the customer will understand. They are friends of ours and have already said that they don't want to redo the whole house, but just want to see if we could do a few simple things to keep water out.

Here's a bunch a pictures of the site and in the basement. Click Here As it is now most of the ground pitches towards the house and on top of that we've had so much rain that it hasn't been possible to do much site work without making a bigger mess.

Thanks for all the tips so far. We will definitely keep the roll/membrane type stuff in mind for future projects. Honestly tar isn't all that cheap either and I'd rather be clean at the end of the day anyway.

 

[Alan Mesmer]

Given the fact that repair funds are limited your options may also be limited.
If the water infiltration is isolated to one or two walls I would, if possible, excavate where practical and install outside footer drains as others stated with a good waterproof barrier against the wall after pressure washing. I usually backfill with a good #57 river gravel to the within 6" of the natural soil surface grade. If natural fall is not available I would put the footer drain under the footer as someone also suggested into a new sump basin in the basement floor. I am not a big fan of systems that are installed inside against basement walls with the exception of the suggestion of the underfloor footer drains directed to a sump pit/pump with a battery backup.
Nothing worse than going down to your basement during a large storm and power outage to find your sump overflowing all over your basement floor. You may also have considered french drains outside if grade can't be effectiively achieved away from the house to collect surface water before it can infiltrate along the foundation. It is my experience that 75% of basement water issues originate from surface drainage problems or downspout issues.
Lots of valuable suggestions.:thumbsup
Good luck with the project.

 

[Dozerboy]

Surewall is what my dad (res. construction) uses never had any complaints after using it, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

 

[Cat420]

It's just not possible to dig and get to all to most of the places where water comes in. There's a porch, septic, well lines, and grounding rods. We can really only get to the spots with no problems. One obvious spot is leaking where the well line come through the wall and this can be fixed. Probably half of the other stuff can be minimized with grade work.

It doesn't help that the ground is nasty here. It is such hard clay on top that nothing soaks in too easily, but when you dig down water will start to pour in from the sides at the bottom and fill the hole. (We had water in the foundation hole until the floor was poured, needless to say it also got drains under it)

Doing stuff inside the old basement isn't the end of the world, since it isn't used for anything important and doesn't need to look great. We just need to do something, because it doesn't look like it will dry out enough for us to do a lot of grading work this fall.

Here's a drawing to help wrap your mind around the layout of the site. We are definitely putting a drain at the top of the ramp that will be tied into the footing drains as a last line of defense to keep the new basement dry, but nothing else is set in stone right now.
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3876002

 

[greywynd]

Sometimes these can turn into big jobs quickly, especially when going outside. From what you've told us here, I would look at going inside the existing and putting the drains in under the floor in that area, one thing about that is weather isn't a huge issue for getting the job done.

I know abut clay soil....two years ago we had a dry spell here....our well ran dry, but digging a fence post hole 100' away i hit water at three feet. So much clay in the soil the water won't travel through it.

I just priced a job (excavating only) for digging out a foundation to waterproof it. Entire perimeter of house (about 130-150' around house), approx 6-7' deep, wood deck has to come off the back of the house, paved driveway going to be cut out/resurfaced after. Everything is underground.....well line, gas, phone, electricity, septic that I know for sure, and I have a suspicion that there are services going to outbuildings as well.

Mark