Picked up a hammer for my 210 I figured for the odd small job but mostly to put a plate on for packing. But I got offered to quote a large demo, around 80,000 sq/ft of precast concrete mostly 8" thick. I am wondering if I run a hammer for this big of a job how bad is it going to be for the machine? Should I? I was ballparking pricing it at an additional $150/hr for running a hammer. I'm concerned being the machine has 9,000 hours and is really tight, is say 100 hours of hammering going to do a lot to the pins and hoses to make me regret it? It's a smaller hammer for the machine, only 2200lbs.
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How hard is a breaker on a hoe?
- Thread starter suladas
- Start date
uffex
Senior Member
Good day
When fitting a hammer to an excavator the first consideration is that of the weight of the hammer plus attachment bracket, the blow rate is flow dependant and choice of point is something to be considered. Recommended operating techniques should be adhered if you need some of the publications drop me a line. The most common illness caused by hammers is that of contamination, I guess we have all seen the hammer discarded on site with the lines open to all the dust and debris.
Kind regards
Uffex
When fitting a hammer to an excavator the first consideration is that of the weight of the hammer plus attachment bracket, the blow rate is flow dependant and choice of point is something to be considered. Recommended operating techniques should be adhered if you need some of the publications drop me a line. The most common illness caused by hammers is that of contamination, I guess we have all seen the hammer discarded on site with the lines open to all the dust and debris.
Kind regards
Uffex
cuttin edge
Senior Member
We have had hammers on our 30 ton plus machines for years. Only real damage has been windshields. We run screens, but every now and then you get that little sliver that gets through. The fittings are quick couplers, and they are coupled together when not on the machine. At the quarry, it is laid as up right as possible when not on the machine, up against a stock pile. We have a rack at the shop for it. One thing learned, is that the tool or dick, as the guys call it, is not a pry bar. The seals don't last long if the operator does a lot of prying. There is a smaller one for the rubber tire backhoes, and if you pry with it, it will break the wedges that hold the tool in place. Just thinking to, is it a floor. We did an old school here. They figured it was just wire mesh in the floor, it was all that old type twisted rebar, some of it was inch and a half. They had to keep the torches handy. in the end, they were happy to let us get rid of the old basement walls, and just bury the floor.
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You certainly should bid the hammer into the job. An additional $150 an hour would seem like a good start. I charge that on a 1000 pound hammer. To maximize the effect of the hammer, I would make sure that the hammer is up to its rated nitrogen charge. 80K sf is a lot of breaking, 8" concrete should not be an issue for a 2200 pound hammer that is functioning correctly (hence checking the hammers charge before you start). I would also get lined up on getting a replacement point ready. Breaking the point is the likely the biggest issue you would come across. On a job that size, I would have one ready, so you don't lose time if you break the point. Learning to run the breaker is a big consideration. Burying the breaker into concrete requires the point to be retracted at the same angle it went in. If you bind the point by changing that angle on retraction, things can break if Mongo running the excavator, gets carried away.
92U 3406
Senior Member
Few key points with hammers:
Proper setup. You want the flow and pressure set to match the hammer's specs. Return oil should flow back to tank with minimal backpressure. Too much backpressure is hard on seals.
Cheap screw-type couplers are no beuno. If they back off or are not properly connected, it starts to restrict flow.
Grease, grease, grease! Bushings and tool bits are not cheap! Index the tool prior to lubrication. Grease between the piston and tool bit is not good.
Most breakers have a nitrogen charge. Low nitrogen charge causes weak hits, return line pressure spikes and other not so desirable performance problems. Run the nitrogen low for too long and it'll eventually blow the membrane.
Store vertical if possible. Easier on seals.
Look at your machine's maintenance manual. Many will specify a stricter hydraulic filter/oil change interval for breaker use.
Proper setup. You want the flow and pressure set to match the hammer's specs. Return oil should flow back to tank with minimal backpressure. Too much backpressure is hard on seals.
Cheap screw-type couplers are no beuno. If they back off or are not properly connected, it starts to restrict flow.
Grease, grease, grease! Bushings and tool bits are not cheap! Index the tool prior to lubrication. Grease between the piston and tool bit is not good.
Most breakers have a nitrogen charge. Low nitrogen charge causes weak hits, return line pressure spikes and other not so desirable performance problems. Run the nitrogen low for too long and it'll eventually blow the membrane.
Store vertical if possible. Easier on seals.
Look at your machine's maintenance manual. Many will specify a stricter hydraulic filter/oil change interval for breaker use.
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CM1995
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FWIW we run a Cat 130 GC hammer which is 4500 LB on a Cat 325FL which is 55K. I charge $300 an hour for machine and hammer. Obviously your pricing will be different depending on your business environment.
Thanks for the input. I've had a fair amount of experience with a breaker on a skidsteer, but never knew about storing upright, etc as I learned from my dad who was the type where maintenance is unheard of, and if it's broken patch it so it will work. But even with that, the only issues I remember having from the breaker was replacing aux hydraulic hoses because the vibration made them rub through. Although from the way you guys talk, i'm amazed the old bobcat hammer he has lasted so long. It rarely saw grease and was used as a pry bar constantly. It did eventually wear out where the point went in, but after 1000's of hours of use and only replacing the point I don't think you can complain.
I bought a chinese hammer from RB for $2500 so if it ran for just this job i'd easily consider it paid for. It's a Mustang HM1000. If I get the job in time, I will buy a second one just in case. How do I know if it has a accumulator? How do I check the nitrogen charge? It was already pre-charged.
That's a good point on the connection, I have the twist type for my thumb. I want to get a shut off and have a separate coupler so i'm not disconnecting the thumb to put on the hammer, so the quick coupler is the way to go?
The job is about 20,000 sq/ft footprint precast building, 2 floors and a roof, all concrete walls so with the slabs on grade it's about 115,000 sq/ft of concrete plus about 15000 sq/ft of asphalt. The worst part is concrete dumps have gotten so picky with rebar and piece size that makes the need to break it so much smaller.
Question, how long do you think it would take to hammer out? Like how many sq/ft per hour would you expect on a 8" slab? Would 1000 sq/ft an hour be reasonable?
I bought a chinese hammer from RB for $2500 so if it ran for just this job i'd easily consider it paid for. It's a Mustang HM1000. If I get the job in time, I will buy a second one just in case. How do I know if it has a accumulator? How do I check the nitrogen charge? It was already pre-charged.
That's a good point on the connection, I have the twist type for my thumb. I want to get a shut off and have a separate coupler so i'm not disconnecting the thumb to put on the hammer, so the quick coupler is the way to go?
The job is about 20,000 sq/ft footprint precast building, 2 floors and a roof, all concrete walls so with the slabs on grade it's about 115,000 sq/ft of concrete plus about 15000 sq/ft of asphalt. The worst part is concrete dumps have gotten so picky with rebar and piece size that makes the need to break it so much smaller.
Question, how long do you think it would take to hammer out? Like how many sq/ft per hour would you expect on a 8" slab? Would 1000 sq/ft an hour be reasonable?
92U 3406
Senior Member
Is your hoe setup to return flow back to tank, rather than through the control valve? A lot of times you'll see too much backpressure with oil being forced through the control valve. A lot of newer hoes you can just select breaker mode in the display, some will be plumbed with a manual valve that you'll have to turn in order to redirect the flow.
Can't say i've heard of them but I can't say I know much about hammers.
Yes I can select the tool, and flow rate on the computer and it says 1 way flow for hammer so i'm assuming I don't need to do anything else?
CM1995
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Do not use the quick connect fittings.
The HEF mechanical board advised against the quick couplers on our 325 that the dealer put on when they fitted the QC and hammer. Well I didn't heed the advice, the quick connect fittings **** their guts due to the vibration (just like I was told here on HEF they would) and messed up the aux valve on the 325 which thankfully was covered under warranty.
The machine has the hyd control valve at the end of the stick - ON/OFF with the removable handles. We fitted threaded ends with metal caps while not in use to keep down on contamination on the hoe and the hammer. It's a little messy since you'll loose some fluid every change but dependable.
We're getting a Cat field trial oil quick type quick coupler fitted as soon as the we can slow down enough to send it to the Cat house. We'll see how that goes.
The HEF mechanical board advised against the quick couplers on our 325 that the dealer put on when they fitted the QC and hammer. Well I didn't heed the advice, the quick connect fittings **** their guts due to the vibration (just like I was told here on HEF they would) and messed up the aux valve on the 325 which thankfully was covered under warranty.
The machine has the hyd control valve at the end of the stick - ON/OFF with the removable handles. We fitted threaded ends with metal caps while not in use to keep down on contamination on the hoe and the hammer. It's a little messy since you'll loose some fluid every change but dependable.
We're getting a Cat field trial oil quick type quick coupler fitted as soon as the we can slow down enough to send it to the Cat house. We'll see how that goes.
cuttin edge
Senior Member
Wonder if the type of quick coupler makes a difference? Our hammer gets a lot of steady use in the rock quarry. It has the quick couplers, Same as you would see on a dump trailer wet line. It was on a 350 john deere, and now it's on a 350 Kobelco.
92U 3406
Senior Member
Yeah you should be good. Those figures put you in a pretty good ballpark most of the time.
That's the type I have for the thumb, I figured they would be great. I like that they are easy to connect and no oil mess. But I definitely don't want to mess anything up.
This is the type I have https://www.ebay.ca/itm/27231888075...-H7v4IooYbO1XvnG7SMhPNeBix8527kQaArqqEALw_wcB
I figure I will look up what the hammer says and I believe I can change by 5-10 LPM intervals to get it really close.
CM1995
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That's above my pay grade.
All I know is they installed quick connects like are found on skids and mini's just a larger diameter and they failed. I have a set of Stucchi QC's that were recommended as a heavier duty coupler that could stand up to the vibration/use. Since we're getting a field trial oil quick we haven't put them on.