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Ford 4500

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by Brenainn, Oct 11, 2008.

  1. Brenainn

    Brenainn Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    22
    Occupation:
    Bricklayer
    Location:
    Ashburnham, Ma.
    Well guys I finally picked up a backhoe. After looking at the Case 680 and a John Deere, I got a Ford 4500. She's somewhere between a 65 and a 75. Its a 3 cyl diesel 201 I think. The loader is in good shape, the hoe is not too bad and the bucket and pins are worn beyond belief. She starts very hard when cold but after its warmed she'll start all right. The transmission is a 4 speed w/shuttle shift and dif lock. I just changed the trans fluid yesterday because I noticed white milk coming up out of the trans when warm. It was like runny mayonaise. I replaced the filter as well. The ford/NH mechanic I talked to at the dealership suggested that I flush the trans out with diesel but he said that running it to long like that may hurt the seals. I figured for an extra 100 or 2 I would be better off using hyd oil and changing it 2 or 3 times to get the water out. The Hyd oil in the loader frame looks good so it must be seperate system. I also have to check the diff fluid and see if its white as well. I also did the power steering fluid, it takes hyd oil but the guy I got it from was using power steering fluid and its like black paint. She doesnt steer too well. I bought the ps filter and will flush it again with hyd oil and put in the new filter. I also did engine oil and fliter, hyd filter (front), air filter (inner and outer) and a couple tubes of grease. I got the diesel fuel filter but didnt change that yet because I dont know how to bleed the lines. I dont have a repair manual yet and cant seem to find a good source for them. I like to look at something before I buy it. I also cant fine the serial tag on the tractor. I found the loader tag and the hoe tag. One of the next thing Id like to do is get some of the diesel leaks fixed. The injector pump and some of the lines are weeping drips here and there. The result is working the tractor in a bath of diesel fumes and smoke :Banghead So its not a new hoe by any stretch but the price was right :D and hopefully it'll do me right :notworthy
     
  2. stumpjumper83

    stumpjumper83 Senior Member

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Movin dirt
    Location:
    Port Allegany, pa
    manuals

    Glad to hear that you got your hoe, and she was cheap... Looks like she might have been well used but not worn out. Here is a link to a company that sells reprodustion manuals. Basically they are high quality copies of the originals. I've bought several different manuals for different equipment from them and I've been pleased.

    If you need parts info, it can be accessed online thru a new holland construction dealer or thru new hollands usa home page.

    http://www.jensales.com/Product_List.aspx?model=4500&make=FORD&cat=manuals
     
  3. Brenainn

    Brenainn Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
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    Occupation:
    Bricklayer
    Location:
    Ashburnham, Ma.
    Got one project done!

    I got one culvert in today, pretty happy about that :) She ran good. The first set of pics came out better than the second. I'll take some more tomorrow :usa

    Hey Stumpjumper, thanks for that. I'll give them a call tues. It figures the one I want is on backorder or special order or something.

    Some stuff I need to fix on the machine

    1) oil pressure gauge
    2) hook up altenator
    3) hook up preheater glow plug flame thing :beatsme
    4) fix leaky injector lines
    5) continue changing oils until mayonaise is out of transmission
    6) Hook up aux power for maybe lights :notworthy
    7) get power steering to work again

    seems doable and not too expensive. Its not like I'm going to dump thousands into this old beast, it just needs some lovin :)
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Shetland Sheepd

    Shetland Sheepd Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    New Boston, NH, USA
    Serial # & date of manufacture

    Hi Brenainn,:)
    You can find the serial # and DOM etc on a decal on the inside of the engine hood! The unit number should give you the date of assembly and read something like the following:
    3H12B Explanation: 3 means 1973, H means August (8th letter in alphabet = 8th month), 12 means 12th day of month, B means second shift in work day.
    You will also find the same type of numbers for engine, transmission, rearend, hydraulic system (in tractor, not loader or hoe). You should be able to find the serial # stamped into the top left mounting pad on the front of the bell housing (I think). Hope that this helps!
    I'm just up the road a ways (New Boston, NH).:usa
    Dave:cool:
     
  5. Brenainn

    Brenainn Member

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    Occupation:
    Bricklayer
    Location:
    Ashburnham, Ma.
    More problems and pics

    Hi Shetland Sheepd, thanks for that. I looked inside the cowl but the tag is gone :( oh well. When I was a kid my mom ran the horse shows up in New Boston at the fairgrounds. Thats a real nice town!

    I did some more diggin today and the hoe swing seems looser than it was yesterday. I has a couple feet of play side to side when extended fully, not good :beatsme Is there an adjustment I can make on that?

    Here is a pic of my altenator any idea how to hook it up to charge the battery?

    Here is a piece I found that was loose on top of the valve cover. I'm assuming this is part of the diesel warming system or electrical parts?

    Any help is appreciated guys :thumbsup
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Shetland Sheepd

    Shetland Sheepd Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    New Boston, NH, USA
    :)Hi Brenainn,
    The piece that you found appears to be the remains of your voltage regulator!:mad: it looks like it burned up in an electrical fire, which would explain the lack of wiring!:eek: It also appears that what you have there isn't an alternator but a Lucas generator, which is standard on that vintage tractor. I don't have expertise on the wiring diagram, so I'm not able to help you there without further research. As for the glow plug (located at the front end of the intake manifold) there should be one wire coming directly from the key switch to the plug. There is a spade on the back of the switch that is dedicated to this function. Again, I don't have a diagram at my disposal right now, but I can gain access to this information in a day or two if someone else doesn't come up with info in the mean time.:beatsme You will also notice a place to attach the drive end of the cable that drives your tachometer.:confused:that is on the outer end of the Lucas generator.
    The information decal may have also been destroyed by an engine compartment fire, or the hood panel may have been replaced at some point. The decal would have been in the middle of the under side of the hood panel that opens (right side of the tractor)
    Just a little bit about me: My forum handle is Shetland Sheepdog (it wouldn't all fit in the login!) My name is Dave. I'll try to get a PM to you with more info. Let me know how you make out.
    Aha! now I see why you can't find the decal! The hood panel is missing!!
    Dave:cool:
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2008
  7. Brenainn

    Brenainn Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
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    Occupation:
    Bricklayer
    Location:
    Ashburnham, Ma.
    Hey Dave, I do have the hood panel, I took it off to start cleaning the motor, figure out where my oil leaks, diesel leaks, exhaust leaks and get a look at her. The blackness you see in the pics I believe is from exhaust leaking. Between the diesel, oil and exhaust everything is coated with black grime including the radiator :eek: Tonight I got the boom swing slack fixed and also greased the u joints on the hyd pump. I'm looking at engine heaters now and was wondering what kind the folks here like the best. The 4 ive seen so far are the in hose block heater, in the freeze plug heater, a magnetic stick on heater and a fuel warmer. I'm thinking the in hose heater but not sue yet :beatsme I got to get my wiring figured out. Another thing I want to do for winter is take off the hoe and make a counter weight out of a barrel some rebar and concrete. Anyone ever do this? How hard is it to take off the hoe? What is the procedure? Thanks for the help, B
     
  8. TrailBoss

    TrailBoss New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Indiana
    Your Boom swing

    I found out on my 550 that I have a cylinder leaking past the seals on the boom swing. I can do a quick fix by unhooking the hose that goes between the two cylinders. This gets rid of the extra hydraulic oil that builds up over time. Looks like for me to be able to fix it right I have to drop the unit to get the cylinders out. I have not figured out the best way to do this yet and not in that big of a rush as I do not use the hole that much.

    If you go to the new holland construction site you can do a search for parts. They has all the parts manuals online. I use it to see how things like wiring and other things are layed out.
     
  9. TrailBoss

    TrailBoss New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
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    4
    Location:
    Indiana
    forgot one thing

    I forgot to add. With your swing boom chain getting loose like that. You might want to make sure that you have your boom chained so that it can not move side to side when you are traveling from place to place. When mine was like that my boom was way to one side and when I when over a bump with the back tire on that side it shifted the boom to the other side and snaped the swing chain. I replaced the whole chain and it cost almost $1000.00 for the chain.
     
  10. Brenainn

    Brenainn Member

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    Occupation:
    Bricklayer
    Location:
    Ashburnham, Ma.
    Hey Trail Boss

    I was starting to think the guys around here didnt like the old Fords!! I did what you said about taking the breather hose off and getting the chain tight. I must have a leak too! First I got to figure out how to get the hoe off the tractor without getting myself killed :) What do I do with the hydraulic lines when I get it off?? Ive completed a few more maintenance projects ; got a new alternator wired in and a new battery with volt gauge, installed a new block heater, installed an oil pressure gauge ( and found out that I have very little oil pressure), did the power steering filter and fluid, installed a new valve cover gasket, welded a nut onto the end of my loader lifting spool valve, wired up the original lights. So I'm pecking away at it!! I'm thinking about dropping the oil pan and doing a new pump and rod and main bearings, I dont know,... Lets hear it guys!!!! :usa
     
  11. stumpjumper83

    stumpjumper83 Senior Member

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    If the machine was mine, I'd leave the hoe on for plowing snow, a little weight never hurts for traction. Besides 2 wheel drive backhoes can get stuck easily depending on what your doing and that hoe can sometimes get you out. Besides, I think your going to need an overhead hoist to get the hoe off, possibly with the stabilizers down and the bucket making a three point tripond you can do it, but if it settles, you might be screwed...
     
  12. MXI

    MXI New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
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    Location:
    Worcester County,MA
    FORD Repair Swing Cylinder on Backhoe

    Looking for someone skilled to repair hydraulic leak on Ford SWING CYLINDER BACKHOE in Worcester County Massachusetts - any recommendations?:beatsme
     
  13. Brenainn

    Brenainn Member

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    Occupation:
    Bricklayer
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    Ashburnham, Ma.
    Hey Stumpjumper, I think you may be right about that hoe. I'll leave it on for the winter. Thanks

    MXI Hey I dont really know maybe someone here does :beatsme I need to fix the seals in my swing cylinders as well, they have slow leaks, that means the hoe needs to come off, I'll figure it out someday :D
     
  14. finalsay

    finalsay New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
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    Location:
    USA
    Hi Brenainn just writing to let you know that I'm learning from the responses you are getting on your equipment I have owned a 555 Ford for 6 months now and am in the same boat you are. I am in the process of cleaning up the machine and changing the fluids for winter etc. Will continue to monitor you thread because it is most helpful. You Ford looks very similar to mine. Mine is a 3 Cylinder, hydrostatic trans.
     
  15. Brenainn

    Brenainn Member

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    Occupation:
    Bricklayer
    Location:
    Ashburnham, Ma.
    Hey Finalsay, good to hear from ya! I been busy doing cordwood lately and have been using the backhoe for that. Just finished up a grapple load and figure I got about 7-8 cord of wood there. Been working on the driveway some too. Got some nice ditches down the side and a decent crown too it. Almost time to grade with the york rake and then maybe a load or 2 of knitpack if I can afford it and stick a fork in it cause I'm done! Next year I'll work on some more stuff. Need to get some tire chains and get the plows ready cause the snows coming!! :usa
     
  16. friend47

    friend47 New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Richfield Springs NY
    My neighbor has a 4500 backhoe, the wiring and everything associated with it burned up. I want to help him rewire using a simple 12 volt alternator, battery, ignition sw, starter ect. Just enough to start charge and run the machine, would anyone have a simple wire diagram for accomplishing this.
     
  17. ror76a

    ror76a Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    211
    Location:
    Michigan
    We still have an old 4500 hanging around from the days when it was the main machine, (had 2 4500s and a 5500). We don't use it much but it is handy every now and then. They are a very strong machine for their size and age.
    As far as your generator goes, I would recomend canning it and replaceing it with a 1 wire alternator, no wiring diragram needed, just run the wire to the battery and you are done with it, no external regulator, don't have to polarize it, just hook up and go, also cheaper in the long run. To take the backhoe off extend the hoe out as far as it will go, set the outriggers down, there are two large nuts sticking straight up behind the seat, one on either side of the toolbox, loosen these nuts (a couple of inches or so) and then use the outriggers to lift the hoe off of the hooks. block the hoe up, disconnect the two main hyd lines to it and drive away from it. It is really a simple process if I explained it right.
     
  18. Phil

    Phil Senior Member

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    retired operator and mechanic
    Location:
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    I like the one wire alternators, but if I don't have one, I use an older Delco Remy alternator with internal regulator, which I think were in use for about 25 years or so, and easy to find. Connect a 10 gauge wire from the large terminal on the alt to the positive terminal on the amp meter, or go direct to the battery terminal on the starter if you don't want a working gauge. On the side of the alt there should be a plug with 2 wires coming out of it. Check for corrosion on the plug connections first. Connect the red wire back to the large positive terminal on the alt. The smaller white wire is the sensing wire and needs to go to the ignition switch to a terminal that is live only when the key is on.

    As with any older diesel with a manual injection pump shut-off, people forget and leave the key on sometimes, draining the battery. An oil pressure switch can be used instead. MF used them on some of their older tractors. Tee the switch into an oil gallery. Connect one terminal on the pressure switch to a live battery feed, the other to the sensing wire from the alternator.

    As with a starter, a good ground on an alternator is important also, I believe. Phil
     
  19. FORD 4500

    FORD 4500 Member

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    Jun 28, 2009
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    Location:
    Ashaway, RI
    I am new to this forum today. I hope my information gets seen by all you great guys. I am still working on making a new post for my problem. I hope I get the hang of all this computer stuff.

    I have a similar backhoe as Brenainn's without the overhead cab. I have had it for about three years with no major problems. The battery died, because the old generator does not work, and I could not get it started with my crappy 6 amp charger during the cold months of winter and so it sat unused all winter.

    New battery, planning on buying a one wire alternator from Autozone to keep me charged, but no start. It cranks. I drained fuel from the filter and it looks good. I opened plugs from the fuel pump, and fuel gushed. I opened the lines to the injectors; nothing. Not a drop of fuel. I was told by a back-yard deisel mechanic that it had to be a broken fuel pump shaft. Another said it was the vacuum bladder in the pump that was shot and would run about $1,000.00.

    All I could think of was the fact that the engine would not start unless it was in neutral. My first question is how that interupt systems works, and could that be a problem. I see a fuel return line going to a block near the ignition switch. What does that do, and could that be the problem? I am at a loss here and need some help.

    Thanks to all of you and this forum

    Tim

    Ashaway, RI
     
  20. Phil

    Phil Senior Member

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    I have a couple of ideas, I'd like to find an old pump I have and post a picture of it.

    Mention of the pump governor diaphragm(bladder) makes me think you might have an in-line pump rather than the rotary pump. I doubt a bad diaphragm would keep the old in-line pump from running, they will usually just run away. A broken pump coupler on these old in-line pumps that Ford uses, is a visual check.

    There is a fuel valve under the CAV rotary pump cover, at the rear, that sticks in the off position, as I recall. Pumps sitting for a very long time or have moisture introduced into them can also end up with the main pump plungers stuck.

    I'm assuming you have the manual pump fuel shut-off lever in the 'run' position, the pump is full of fuel and air has not been introduced into the pump at some point.

    A fuel line leading to the rear of the engine, that does not look like the normal fuel line return to tank, is probably part of the manifold heater system.

    Was your engine running good before you shut it off? Phil