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ford 4500 steering problems

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by shopteacher 1, Jul 10, 2010.

  1. shopteacher 1

    shopteacher 1 Well-Known Member

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    Apr 22, 2010
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    Location:
    Delaware
    I have a ford 4500 backhoe. The power steering pump has enough fluid. When turning, it has power steering when turning right, but is hard to steer when turning left.

    Any ideas?
     
  2. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    Location:
    Andrews SC
    You need to adjust the linkage (like a turnbuckle) that operates the valve on the steering cylinder. It is down low in front of the radiator. This a normal problem for these old girls.
     
  3. shopteacher 1

    shopteacher 1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Mitch,

    What exactly am I adjusting & how?

    John
     
  4. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    Andrews SC
    You're adjusting the linkage that opens the valve (on the cylinder itself) that sends oil to the steering cylinder. If I remember when I get to the shop I'll scan the instructions for you.
     
  5. shopteacher 1

    shopteacher 1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Mitch - you are a great resource!:)
     
  6. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    When I looked at this picture I remembered that if the cylinder anchor pin nut gets loose it will cause this too. It is under the front end casting. I can't remember if there is a way to hold the pin and tighten the nut or if the pin is locked, but I'm sure you can tighten this nut from outside. I would have looked to see but it was pouring rain when I left the shop.

    Good Luck, Mitch

    :BangheadI scanned the instructions for adjusting the valve and have tried everything but hanging from the chandelier to post it. I tried it as a pdf and a bmp and couldn't get it to a size the forum would take. Send me an email at
    natural_nutrients@msn.com and I'll email it back to you.:Banghead:bash:bash
     
  7. oldhousehugger

    oldhousehugger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Messages:
    96
    Location:
    Dallas
    Shop project on 4500 steering

    Here are some pictures of the steering cylinder with the valve on top. I replaced the center arm assembly pivot pin and the lower bushing on mine to get rid of a bunch of slack. I found that the A&I part they sell for the replacement won't work. I lucked out and found a retired Ford dealer in Kansas who had a new OEM part he couldn't wait to get rid of. I also replaced the bushing where the cylinder attaches to the center arm. The entire mess is a lot easier to work on if you take the radiator shield off and pull the radiator.
    I tried adjusting everything after I got it all back together but if I want it to turn both ways, I have to leave it where it wants to pull to the left all the time. I guess there must be a leak in the valve body. At $600 plus for a new cylinder I wasn't about to go there.

    I had to grind relief in the frame casting for the new hydraulic fittings which I used into the valve body or they hit. After some tweeking it works OK. I also found that the steering valve actuator arm has a pin and socket which engages the center arm casting and when it gets worn I figure that it allows to much movement to work perfectly. So mine works slightly imperfectly but it's 100% better than no power steering at all.

    Another reason to remove the radiator is that the right inner tie rod ball joint nut was loose and I had to remove everything to get at it. Oh and the radiator fins were completely plugged with old oil and dirt which required a lot of work with oven cleaner to get clean. The radiator shop spent 2 hours patching holes but couldn't get the dirt out. I had to do that myself.

    One other thing. When I reinstalled the new hydraulic pump I shimmed the mounting bracket up so the driveshaft wouldn't hit the pivot pin cover plate.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. oldhousehugger

    oldhousehugger Well-Known Member

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    Anchor pin issues.

    PLEASE do not try to tighten the anchor pin. A new one costs $100 plus. The nut and keeper gizmo that is OEM is crap. It took a 10 foot cheater, a 3/4 drive socket and an adaptor I fabricated out of two 1 1/2 inch nuts to back the one I had out of the stripped hole in my front casting. Once I got the old anchor pin out I chased what was left of the threads in the casting. The pin is so hard that threads don't strip they break off like glass.
    To lock the readjusted pin in it's proper location, I drilled and tapped two 1/2 threads to intersect the harded anchor pin through the casting and ground 2 flats on the pin to recieve the grade 8 set screws. I used JB weld as a thread locker on the set screws.
    I found that the pin will bind the power assist cylinder rod pivot unless care is taken to insert the correct shims under the pivot head to line it up with the cylinder. There is shoulder on the pin that will jam the pivot if you aren't aware of it.
     
  9. shopteacher 1

    shopteacher 1 Well-Known Member

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    Apr 22, 2010
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    Location:
    Delaware
    Thanks for the info and pictures. It has been so hot that I have not had a chance to tackle this project. The tractor runs and steers, but the power steering is hard in one direction.

    Thanks again,
    John
     
  10. jigger

    jigger New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
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    1
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    I have what I think is a ford 4500 back hoe. It's older than dirt and wore out, but runs great. I recently have started losing gears. I've lost all but 4th. I can still get it into 2nd, but as soon as I put it in forward or reverse it grinds and kicks out of gear. I can't even find 1st or 3rd. Any help would be appreciated. The beast isn't worth a plug nickel, but it's invaluable to me.
    Thanks.
     
  11. oldhousehugger

    oldhousehugger Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Jigger
    Above your battery on the inside of the hood there may be a name plate with tractor, transmission, rear end and engine numbers on it.
    Ford serial #'s for the 2000 thru 9000 series 3 cylinders according to yesterday tractor antique tractor guide are as follows
    65.............C100000
    66.............C124200
    67.............C161300
    68.............C190200
    69.............C226000
    70.............C257600
    71.............C292100
    72.............C327200
    73.............C367300
    74.............C405200
    75.............C450700

    If it was me and I was unable to shift, the first thing I would do was pop the top off the transmission carefully and check to see if I had all my shifter forks in the right place.
    If you don't have the service manual on it you can get one on EBAY for under 10 dollars on a CD. The one I got wasn't perfect but it has quite a bit of information about the variuos transmissions used in that series.
    Here are severeal pages out of the 4 speed trany section

    4500 transmission_shifter_0001small.JPG
    4500 transmission_shifter_0002small.JPG
    4500 transmission_shifter_0003small.JPG
    4500 transmission_shifter_0004small.JPG

    Forks can be fabricated and or fixed if they are worn thru and I'll bet you can still get various parts from Ford/New Holland if you can't find them at the salvage yards. Try asking on Tractor House parts search. A number of New Holland dealers have excellant parts diagrams on their web sites if you can figure out what your tractor is so you can look it up.

    Try reading up on Yesterday Tractor web site. There are a number of Ford mechanics there willing to help. I am sure that others out there have been deep into thier transmissions and can help you more than I. As luck would have it my old gal still shifts into all gears. It's the planitaries that I'm worried about on mine. Guy who had it before me ran it with low oil in the rearend and it's noisy. Ouch!
    If your old gal begins to loose it's value to you and you are close enough geographically perhaps I could talk you into selling it to me CHEAP.
    John
     
  12. 10-7@8400

    10-7@8400 Member

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    Mar 3, 2011
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    Location:
    Colorado
    I have a '72 Ford 4500 with a leaking steering cylinder. Any info on removing the cylinder would be appreciated. Thanx
     
  13. shopteacher 1

    shopteacher 1 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Delaware
    From what I can see on mine, it appears you need to remove the radiator and front cowl. The cowl is heavy but can be lifted easily with an engine hoist.
     
  14. 10-7@8400

    10-7@8400 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Colorado
    Leaking Steering Cylinder

    Thanks for the reply. I already have the hood, radiator, and hydraulic pump off. I'm having a problem getting the steering linkage off so I can get the cylinder out.
     
  15. thahn1608

    thahn1608 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
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    28
    Location:
    South Eastern PA
    I have a 550 that the power steering hoses are leaking, but upon closer inspection they are rubbing on the tie bar. I don't think the bar is bent. Anyone had this problem? Could it be because the bushings are worn and there is too much play? I just bought this machine and want to fix it right. Any thoughts?
     
  16. 10-7@8400

    10-7@8400 Member

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    Location:
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    I have mine torn apart right now, waiting for a taper pin to be machined, but from memory the two power steering hoses run acroos the front of the tractor, over the hydraulic pump to the right side, (looking from the front). Then both run up the right side of the radiator, and back down behind it to the power steering pump. It sounds like yours might have been re-routed if they're wearing on the tie rod.

    I should have mine back together by next weekend and could send a picture if you're still having problems.

    10-7@8400
     
  17. Rforce1024

    Rforce1024 Member

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    Jan 18, 2012
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    Location:
    NJ
    Mitch504----I have a ford 4500 backhoe and is having problems with the steering also.. how hard is it to remove what i have to remove in order to get to the steering cylinder? I think i need to wield the ram (what comes out of the cylinder) and what is still bolted to the front of the backhoe... sorry if i am confusing you here.. please let me know.. thanks
     
  18. Rforce1024

    Rforce1024 Member

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    or anyone with info can contact me.. thanks
     
  19. 10-7@8400

    10-7@8400 Member

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    Location:
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    Rforce1024 you have to remove the cowl above the radiator, the radiator, and hydraulic pump to get to it. It's a pain in the neck because the cowl is so heavy, (I used a couple of 4" x 4" steel tubes for uprights strapped to the tractor, with a crossbar on top, and a come-along to lift it off, and set it in front of the loader bucket). The cowl also contains the hydralic reservoir which you have to drain, as well as drain the radiator and remove it. The pump comes out pretty easily, but I had to grind a flat on the taper pin that connects the steering pump to the linkage, and use a 24" crescent wrench with a 4' breaker bar to get it out, then have a new one machined. All that being said, it went together a lot easier, and works fine with no leaks now.
     
  20. Rforce1024

    Rforce1024 Member

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    Location:
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    ok thanks.. I really hate having to do this.... but for awhile yesterday i was trying to see how and what i could do to get the cylinder out... the tractor still turns and all but the steering cylinder wants to move all over and what is happening, it is crushing the hose on the side of the compartment.. this was my 2nd line.. and parts dont come cheap... why cant this be summer and things be alot easier lol