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Digging a pond???

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by watglen, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. watglen

    watglen Senior Member

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    I thought i knew how to dig a pond with my D5G, but after reading a bunch of posts, maybe not!

    I have a 50' x 75' hole to dig, 7' deep. Material is dry clay. Owner doesn't want large banks, so i expect to spread the spoil over a 75 or 100' around the edges.

    Not sure on how steep to make the sides.

    I could dig it with my ec240, and dress with the dozer, not sure which would be best.

    Owner wants a fixed price.

    How should i do this?
     
  2. Hardcountry

    Hardcountry Active Member

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    If a Pond is what we call a Ground Tank (for livestock to water at) the sides should be a 3 to 1 batter and 90% are dug with a Dozer. The going rate here is $1.80 to $2.00 a cubic meter, our country around here has no rock under it, if theres a chance of rock the price has to reflect this.
    There is a formular to work out how much dirt will come out of hole with a 3 to 1 batter but old timers desease has got me and i cant remember what it is.
     
  3. Greg

    Greg Senior Member

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    sounds like a perfect job for my D8 and D7 pulling pans. Hardcounty's unit cost sounds a bit low for around here.
     
  4. vapor300

    vapor300 Senior Member

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    diggin 7ft with a 5 and pushing it that far will take awhile, anyway you could rent a bigger dozer?
     
  5. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    You are looking at moving around 2200 CY with a 25% swell just for the 50'x75'x7' hole. Then add the slopes that the owner wants to your total CY.

    I agree with Greg, $2 a CM/CY is low for a small job. Smaller the job, the higher the price per CM/CY. With fuel at $3.50 or so a gallon for off-road, $5K for that job seems skinny to me.

    I would probably bail the dirt with the 240 and dress with the D5, preferably have another operator on either the hoe or D5 to make it go faster. Set the hoe up cutting the 50' wide section, it should be able to get the dirt close enough to the banks so the 5 doesn't have to travel as far.
     
  6. Colorado Digger

    Colorado Digger Senior Member

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    why am i whining?

    yeah, i agree. with all the sniveling i do about prices 5 k seems way low. but if it is clay and you have a good sized hoe and a dozer. what are the two pieces worth an hour. i get $150 an hour on a 210 and $145 on my 850h. , so round it to 300 an hour by 10 hours a day. 3 days total, so for me i would be around 10k, but your market may be different. i would shoot for a minimum of $7500. and your gonna have to hustle.
    plus how well does the client want it shaped? what about the inlet and outlet?
    good luck, try to get as much as you can!!
    regards, cd
    :usa:usa
     
  7. Greg

    Greg Senior Member

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    I would be in the $3.50 a cubic yard range on this one. Take D8K with Cat No. 80 pan and a small finish dozer. Cut, haul and spread with D8 and pan. Use finish dozer as required and to finish grade. That comes to $7,700.00 US. Should be in and out complete finished in three days by myself. Finish dozer not needed full time on a job like this one for me.
     
  8. SE-Ia Cowman

    SE-Ia Cowman Well-Known Member

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    one question are you digging a hole in the midle of a flat field or do you need the spoil to build a dam, it sounds more like a lagoon the way you are describeing it. If it is an ag pond the NRCS around here uses $1.40/yd for there estamates. but if it was site prep work I would be close to gregs numbers. Also I just ran the numbers and it is only 2064 cu/yds with the slopes included
    Length x width x height /27
    50 x 75 x 7 =26250 /27= 972 cu/yds
    slopes 3:1 are 21 feet in distance so just picture to triangels on tope of each other and you have a cube so you only have to figure 2 sides for the slope yardage
    21x7x50=7350/27=272 cu/yds
    21x7x75=11,025/27=408 cu/yds added together - 1652 cu/yds multiplied by 1.25 for swell and you get 2065 cu yds.
    Hope this helps so the math lesson for today is to figure area of a equilateral triangle take LxWx.5
     
  9. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    I believe I'd bail the dirt with the 240, and dresss it with the d5. I'd figure about $7500 US dollars, dunno how many Canadian ones that is.
     
  10. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    By the way, from a SE-US cowman to a SE-IA one, I love your signature line.
     
  11. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair...I honestly don't understand. Eights and sevens with scoops? Excavators...even finish Cats, bloody hell! multiple machines to build a puddle hole. What world do you blokes live in? A hole that size is a couple of days work for (say) a Komatsu 65.

    Look at it this way. Fifty foot is just five slots and it's only three maybe four floors deep...get real fellers, five grand tops.
     
  12. RDG

    RDG Senior Member

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    That will get some bites.
     
  13. OldandWorn

    OldandWorn Senior Member

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    :) :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
  14. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Your right SE-Ia Cowman it's around 1200 for the base hole with a 25% swell. I think I am getting dyslexic or it's just the heat.:dizzy I looked back at my chicken scratch from last night and I just replaced the 1 with a 2 in my post. :pointhead

    As far as choosing a machine to do the job, the OP has a 240 and a D5. If I was him and had that job that's what I would use. IMO in this economy you use what you already have on your yard, no sense in paying the rental house if you have machines sitting.

    Greg would use his 8's with pans and CD would use his 210 and 850. I would use my 953. All would get the job done and hopefully make money.;)

    What would you charge for mobilization?
     
  15. Colorado Digger

    Colorado Digger Senior Member

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    get real??

    different strokes different folks, thats all i can say. maybe someone will want to dig it with a 7500 mini that never breaks down and is the best.... who knows.
    i guess you guys guys do it different down under:tong:tong
     
  16. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair...a question for Greg up thread with scoops (pans) behind the Sevens or Eights...on a job like that how would you blokes rip?

    Thanks.
     
  17. Dickjr.

    Dickjr. Senior Member

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    I just did about the same job this week. Will be complete by noon tommorow. I have 28 hours in it using a D39 Komatsu. There was a little rock involved that slowed the process. I told the owner 3600$ , he was happy and from what I am seeing I will be getting little over 100$ an hour for that tractor. I run it for 85$ but like you the guy wanted a firm price. So both parties are happy in the end. Actually should be about 112.50 per hour. I feel you can do the same with that 5G. The only thing about the hoe is less compaction . Every pass with the dozer will give you a bit of compaction or take the hoe and wipe it down real well. We have heavy clay as in push the blade down raise up the front of the tractor to get a cut started. Then take about 6" a pass. I'll photo my job tommorow. My job is round does yours have to be square?
     
  18. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair...what can I say? Most dozer operators THINK they know how to push dirt but in fifty years of watching I have seen very few that can. This interesting thread illustrates that point very clearly...clients are paying dearly for lack of expertise.

    Not to pick on Dickjr (because most blokes are the same) but you cannot move dirt efficiently by jacking up the nose and taking a six inch cut. Good on him for making money on the job...and it illustrates how out of touch some of the other commentors were on pricing, but he would have done even better with a bit of proper training as to how to make his tractor more effective.
     
  19. ih100

    ih100 Senior Member

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    Bit sweeping there, Scrub Puller. I've seen more dozer operators that can operate than can't, and some of the indifferent ones have got better with time, usually when they've worked alongside better operators. If the nose is jacked up the machine isn't heavy enough to penetrate and no operator can get over that. Mind you after 50 years watching you don't need a pup with only 34 years experience to point that out.
     
  20. Greg

    Greg Senior Member

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    NRCS may estimate it at $1.40 but that does not make it correct. It also means that they will cost share a $1.40 a yard and owner has to pay the rest.

    As far as scrubpuller goes, I drop the blades and hook up the pans when ever I can. I can't push 18 yards with a blade on a D8 any way you cut it or 11 yards with a D7. You push with a Komatsu 65 all day and I will cut and haul with D8 and pan and lets see who's got the biggest pile the end of the day.