Detroit 2-Cycles in 2017+

[Birken Vogt]

Junkyard's post on the winch trucks had me wondering about how much longer these antiques are going to be supported. Well lo and behold I found this:

http://www.mtu-report.com/History/Detroit-Diesel-2-Cycle-engines/Keeping-a-good-thing-going

According to that, they are still building new 53, 71 and 92 series for the military.

What kind of machines are they going into? What level of computerization? What level of emissions?

At least it is encouraging that they are still being made. Then we have a reasonable expectation of continued parts support for some time.

I know of only 2 still running in this county. I am sure there are more but you don't see them much.

 

[Junkyard]

Interesting thought. We still see them in oilfield stuff although not as much as we did 15 years ago. My haul truck at the turn of the millennium was an older International, 6V92TA. I know the military likes them because they'll run on just about anything and aren't terribly complicated to work on. I would assume anything that isn't subject to the various emissions regulations would be fair game. I couldn't begin to tell you where those areas are and how well they'd fit with the current way of training mechanics. Kind of amazing the old 2 stroke has made it all these years. I like the quirky old girls. Always had to slam my hand in the door of the ole binder so I was mad enough to drive it right! Nothing better than one winding down from a stuck injector after you choke it out or shut the fuel off!

Junkyard

 

[John C.]

Just because they still produce parts and possibly complete engines doesn't mean that they will supply them to our markets I hate to say.

A few years ago I was at a conference dealing with maintenance management and one of the questions that came up was whether or not the major engine manufacturers would continue to build non US complying engines for the overseas markets. None of the representatives would answer the question which was an obvious conclusion to the audience that the answer was yes. As far as the US Military goes I don't know of any new machines being produced with a 2 stroke diesel but maybe someone on the forum could confirm that.

 

[crane operator]

Oshkosh 1070 heavy equipment transporter uses a 8v92 at 500 hp, some I believe with a DDEC controler- 500 hp. I've heard with a abrams on they get about 2 gallons to the mile



http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=11729672&convertTo=USD#



M113 armored personel carrier uses 6v53 at 350 hp



https://springfield.craigslist.org/hvo/5905304286.html

I see both engines come up on surplus auctions. Some are DDEC, some are not. I believe the DDEC heads are not interchangeable with the old style, the injectors are all electrically fired.

I think they use the 8v92's in more that just the Heavy equipment transporter- maybe some of the engineer's tracked vehicles?

 

[crane operator]

There was a big shake up a few years ago, when govliquidations still sold the military surplus trucks. The EPA stopped all sales of the surplus trucks for a while, because no military trucks meet emissions, or are even tested for it.

How about some irony there:usa. If I was in Cali dealing with their issues, and driving right beside a military truck convoy, I'd throw a fit. But that's why I don't live in California.

Some agreement was reached, and they started selling them again. Iron planet sells the rolling stock, govliquidations sells parts.

I have seen some HET's on Iron Planet, but they bring big $, and I'd hate to keep it fueled. They would make one bad heavy duty, go anywhere wrecker though.

 

[td25c]

My guess would be for servicing the vast inventory of combat & ground support vehicles the US military currently uses with the Detroit power plant .

M109 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M109_howitzer

M113 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M113_armored_personnel_carrier#Recent_history

M992 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M992_Field_Artillery_Ammunition_Support_Vehicle

From what I could tell from the wiki articles these rigs aint goin anywhere soon . Sounds like they plan to use them for awhile .

6000 M113's still in the fleet and wont be phased out until 2030 . That's quite a long run from it's beginning in the early 1960's

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M113_armored_personnel_carrier#Replacement


Looks like you can get a brand new M113 from BAE systems , 6 V 53 T engine . I like it , could see many uses for something like this on a job site .

http://www.baesystems.com/en-us/product/m113-family-of-vehicles

Spec sheet http://www.baesystems.com/en-us/download-en-us/20151124121533/1434555467867.pdf

 

[RZucker]

Did someone say "2 stroke Detroit"? I love 'em, I take care of a bunch in off road equipment and older seasonal farm trucks.
I have to wonder... just how much sheer noise that 350HP 6v53 makes. I think that second to the 6-110, the 6v53 is probably the most obnoxiously noisy engine Detroit ever built. One local farmer had 10 in old IH trucks with 653 Allisons and you could hear their tortured howling a couple miles away.

 

[td25c]

Did someone say "2 stroke Detroit"? I love 'em, I take care of a bunch in off road equipment and older seasonal farm trucks.

Same way RZ , We still run 10 Detroit engines in various trucks & equipment .

They are reliable ,cost effective to repair , and get the job done . What more could ya want ? Not a bit surprised that the military still keeps them in service in certain sectors . Smart move !

I compare the Detroit to the " small block chevy engine " . Look at the huge numbers produced & sold to customers over the years .

With all the aftermarket sources I imagine there will be parts supply for many years .

http://www.agkits.com/Detroit-Diesel-Engine-Rebuild-Kits-8V71.aspx

http://www.agkits.com/Detroit-Diesel-Engine-Rebuild-Kits-4-53.aspx

 

[mowingman]

And, don't forget, you can still get parts for your old 6-110 from W.W. Williams. I think the old Detroit 2 strokes will be with us for a long time.

 

[Bumpsteer]

A friend had a 5 yard Deere loader, repowered with a 8V71..... scariest piece of equipment I've ever ran. Throttle up going into a pile and you swore that Detroit was going to climb right up your arse.....lol.

Ed

 

[alskdjfhg]

I never noticed them until I got the P&H, which has two.

Now I notice them more. About a year ago I was dealing with a shop that was putting together small pump rigs and they were using Detroits.

One of those M1070s along with its matching M1000 trailer would be cool. And when you think about how much truck that is and some of the off-road features its got, I don't see the price as too terrible (I see them go for around 15k-20k). There is a guy on YouTube that uses one as along truck in some rainforest.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I notice that opinions of them seem varied depending on what part of the country you are in.

Around here they were generally looked at as the cheap base engine for trucks. If it was a fleet truck and you didn't care, it got a Detroit.

If it was a O/O that had certain pride and had to keep up with his buddies at the diner, then it was a Cat or Cummins. They would argue about which was better at the diner.

Years went by and Detroits mostly disappeared except for fire trucks and old water trucks that did not run a whole lot of miles, and certain cement mixers (all ours here are front engine rear discharge smaller ones).

I think high fuel costs may have killed off the remainder, also.

Then some of the old timers have become nostalgic about them but those guys are getting past retirement age.

The only one I know of now is one in a fire truck which is exempt from the anti-grandfathering emissions craziness, and I was in the woods and saw a big old IH watering roads.

 

[Junkyard]

Unless he wants stupid $ I'll buy at least one of the old winch trucks. Also assuming it's not hammered. 6-71 and a 10 speed. Says he has two old Brigadiers setup like that. One later model Volvo with what I assume is a 60 series by his ad. Also has a 1970 Chevy with a little 4 ton crane. Might end up with a bunch of iron cheap. Of course I'll have to explain my new toys to the better half! I hope he hasn't torn the Allis down too far..... Pics will come tomorrow on the HD16 post I made.

Junkyard

 

[willie59]

There's still quite a few fire trucks in the City of Knoxville fire dept fleet that have 8V-92 Detroits. I don't know if you can still purchase new fire trucks with the 2 stroke Detroit. Like has been said, it's mainly emission laws that killed them. I think one of the things that made the 2 stroke Detroit so popular in so many military and machinery applications was that by design you could build the engine to suit the application. CW rotation or CCW, starter on left or starter on right. Simply rotating the head would put the exhaust manifold on left or right. Plus the drives for accessories like compressors or pumps. Not to mention the governor, either standard governor or variable speed. I can't think of any other diesel engine that is so adaptable to any given application.

 

[Buickspec6231]

Coast Guard uses the 6V92TA in their 47' Motor Life Boat. Two per vessel.

 

[old-iron-habit]

A couple of years ago I was behind a National Guard armored troop carrier in our local 4th of July parade. It had that unmistakeable 2 stroke scream. After the parade I asked the driver what was in it. He showed me the twin turboed 6-71 putting out what he said was just under 500 HP. He made my day when he threw sod with all six tires with a "burp" of the throttle when he left the staging area.

By the way I have a 8-71 setting here with under 2000 miles on a rebuild if anyone needs one. Still in the truck so can be ran to check it out.

 

[crane operator]

I have two in daily service.

Grove tms 300 with a 6-71 inline, really great on fuel on a jobsite. Not enough engine for 80,000lbs in hills. It's not really too bad if you've got a flat run, without a lot of stop and go.

P&H t650 with a 6v-92ta. Much better hp wise. Uses much more fuel also (imagine that).

I have a mechanic shop a hour away from me that is a old bus repair center. They are the only ones I have run overhead/rack. They actually like me bringing them in, they don't see much of the 2 stroke stuff anymore. Most of their new work is with 60 series.

Nothing sounds quite like a detroit revving up. Worked the other day with a young guy, we had done a lot of work together last year: "boy I've missed the sound of that crane". Which is not what I usually think after running it 8 or 10 hours.

Crane work is really hard on a engine. Not from over work, but from excessive idleing. With the pumps engaged, it really doesn't get the engine working hard enough. It's better for that detroit to really run, but in crane rental work, I seldom run hard on the jobsites. If you're not doing anything, I can't stand to have that engine sitting there running wide open. I had the head off my 6-71 this summer because of a stuck valve, it just had carbon keeping it open a little bit, and I know it's from too much idleing, but I don't know how to change that.

I saw that 6v53 for sale by me, as military surplus, and I thought it was a misprint at 350hp. That's really shoving the fuel to a pretty small motor, they must have a big cooling system, and I bet engine life isn't great. It's probably at the top of it's rpm range to make that hp. 2,800rpm

All that said, I have no real complaints other than noise with my Detroits. They snort a little oil out of the drains when they first start up, and they tend to vibrate bolts loose, but they are very reliable.

I've heard it said "No engine can have more $%it wrong with it than a Detroit, and still get you home". Which I much prefer over today's overly sensored motors. Some of those you could probably say the reverse " no engine could have less wrong with it and still leave you stranded?":cool2

 

[Jim D]

FWIW: How about a 20V-149!

This is a so-so video, but it has a 20V-149 in it (the second engine, in the vid). Looks like a Stewart-Stevenson generator. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZjKlvWJiSU

A 8V-149 with two 6V-149's bolted to it, one on each end!

 

[Birken Vogt]

Old boy with the white mustache, suspenders and toothpicks got a pretty good grin when they let her go to 1800 RPM there

 

[willie59]

Music to my ears.