Cylinder Help

[tresslers]

Getting around to working on the Hydraulic cylinders on my 580b. I have at least two that need to be repacked. From what i found on the web it says that the rod could be bent? But i am thinking that the seals are just old and that is why they are leaking.

I found a gland nut tool for $100, and the seals look to be about $50 or so from Case. I also spoke to a Hydraulic shop that will replace the seals for $200 a cylinder.

My debate is should i buy the tool and try to replace the seals myself or should i just drop off the cylinders and let the shop do it?

How hard is it to replace seals?

 

[CatYelloBlooded]

In our area, 200$ a cylinder seems like a reasonable price for the work. The cylinders i have removed from a 580 were always easy to access. You can save money by doing it yourself, but there can be a wealth of labor required in rebuilding some cylinders. I've seen cylinders that size seized up to where the nut on the housing required heating all around and a 48" pipe wrench attached to a hoist to break loose. It really depends on the tooling you have availiable as to whether its economical. The seals are the easy part as you just have to be delicate with replacing them. You can dissassemble the cylinders leaving the can attached to the machine using it as mount, but you'll need air and good strong impact to completely dissassemble. Really, the answer lies in what is worth more to you and your business. If your concerned about downtime, or tooling set up, 200$ is pretty cheap for a guarantee. If money is your primary concern, and you have the tooling, then it might be better to attempt yourself.

Personally, i would take them to the hydraulic shop.

 

[Phil]

Which cylinders are they? The outriggers are the worst I think. If you can get the gland to unscrew, I think that's half the battle, the piston retaining bolt can be hard to get off too. The loader cylinders are easy to do. You can check your rod with a straightedge and get a pretty good idea without taking it apart. Phil

 

[tresslers]

It the boom and dipper cylinders that need to be fixed. It is on the list of things to do. I ordered the gland nut wrench to take them apart. I am going to try to fix it myself.

Are the gland nuts left or right hand thread?

 

[Phil]

Glands have a right hand thread. Phil

 

[tonka]

um i'd have the hyd shop do it

 

[Diggerodell]

If time is a factor take it to the hydraulic shop and I'm betting you will end up there anyway. Cylinders usally leak for some reason and seldom from normal wear. Most of the time it is bent rods, scoring, cracks etc. Any repairs to a cylinder usally takes re-chroming or rod replacement, out of round barrels, usally some type of machining. I'm rebuilding the hydraulic motor circle cylinders on a 1970 Austin Western motor grader. Super 300. The seals are no longer available. The rods are sealed with a 3/8th" cross section "o" ring that we could not locate with numerous call all over the USA. Best they could do is build a jig to make the "o" rings for $1000 bucks. My decision was to take the cylinders to a machine shop and we designed a new packing system that fits into the old system using new modern available "v" packings. It is a beautiful repair job but not cheap. I have some pictures but I'm not good enough at this computer to send them.
Last comment is my sick feeling of what is happening to our used salvage parts now that scrap iron has reached over $250 a dollars a ton. I'm afraid the supply will be disappearing and making the opportunity to keep some of these old dinosaurs working...impossible Diggerodell

 

[melben]

cylinders

Tresslers , check your private mail please. melben

 

[digger242j]

I'm rebuilding the hydraulic motor circle cylinders on a 1970 Austin Western motor grader. Super 300.

Diggerodell, first, welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums.

Second, have you seen Dwan Hall's Austin Western 300 project here? I'm sure he'd be happy to compare notes with you.

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=423

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=2015

 

[EddieWalker]

I've rebuilt the cylinders on my Case 1550 and my New Holland 555E, including the dipper cylinder. They are heavy, but not very dificult to work on. You will need a spanner wrench to take them apart and a big impact to get the piston off. I have come across loctite on both, and only a torch to melt off the loctite can get them loose.

The dealer will sell you a kit, and depending on the cylinder, model and current mood of Case, you can end up with all sorts of junk in the rebuild kit. One kit is good for a very large variety of models, so you pay for all that extra stuff. After paying $50 and more for a kit more times then I care to figure out, I found out about a local repair shop. He'll do it for a fair price, but he'll also sell me just the parts that I need. Now I'm spending $10 to $20 in seals for a rebuild!!!

In about 30 cylinders, I've never seen or had a bent rod. It's always the seal that slides over the cylinder that wears out and lets hydraulic oil leak out. I've had one cylinder that I just couldn't get apart and paid New Holland to do it. They said it was red loctite, and they had to burn it off. I had another cylinder that took me two days to get apart. I could turn it with my spanner wrench just a small amount with all my strenght and weight. It was mid summer, 100 degrees out and very high humidity. I worked on it off and on for two days and hated every second of it.

Most of the time, they are very easy and a ten dollar seal is all you need.

Eddie

 

[Diggerodell]

EddieWalker,
Hey it looks like you are getting success with your repair jobs and that is the secret. When they come back then everyone loses. I have attached a photo of the packing repair on the Super 300 Austin Western circle reversing motor. No magic here except a little machining to convert the cylinder over to receive the new modern parts that are readily available. Notice the old "O" ring seal and felt wiper. The hydraulic engineer said the 5 "V" packings and the two back-up packings would be good for 2000# PSI operating pressure. Two additional will make it good for about 3000#. Keep them in the dirt! Diggerodell

 

[Phil]

Nice picture Diggerodell. Did you just tighten the nut a little to preload the packing? It's got to be more forgiving than the 'nylon type' of seal used in Case cylinders. Phil

 

[Diggerodell]

Phil,
I may have confused everone with this repair. The photo is of the redesigned machine work on the cylinder cap. The original seal is shown near the bottom of the photo consisted of that fat "O" ring and you can just see the groove down in the end cap where that was located. That is not used now! The big recessed area was cut deeper to recieve the new gland that holds the packings and compression nut. The teflon wiper seal drives into that assembly. The gland was fitted with an "O" ring around the outside to seal the perimeter of the assembly and the complete gland is retained with a snap ring using the original groove. The original felt wiper ring shown was much thicker, covered with a steel washer of the same size( not shown) and held in by a snap ring. We reused that snap ring groove to hold the gland in place. This cylinder is now in operation and working great. Note! tighten the threaded packing nut just enough to keep from leaking and lock it in place with the tiny set screw. It is just like any packing seal, don't over tighten. I hope this might spur someone's imagination to get themselves out of a tough repair someday. Diggerodell

 

[Phil]

Picture is worth a thousand words. I always admire someone willing to try a modification like that. Phil

 

[oldtimer53]

Bent rod is unusual, unless an eye gets siezed or the cylinder is interfered with in it's stroke. You shouldn't have a problem once the gland is removed. Very large cylinders ore hard because of the torque on the nut that holds the piston on the rod. I just got done with one that reqired @4000 Ft/Lb to loosen, had to have the dealer use his hydraulic wrench to take off. Early cylinders with removeable yokes (threaded rod) aren't a problem. These are low pressure, The gland can be removed of the end of the rod. High pressure cylinders have a welded eye on the rod. These are tough because of the torque mentioned and the various methods of locking the piston nut to the shaft.

 

[John Wilson]

Don't know if you have gotten the seals fixed yet, but We have a large number of quarry operations near us, and with that, repair/hydraulic shops. It is worth the money to have them fix them, as they do it for a living. Typically if they do hydraulics on big mining equipment, a cylinder for a loader or backhoe is small potatoes to them, so they won't charge an arm and a leg. Look around your area for places like this.

Cheers,
John

 

[diggenTX]

hello i'm pretty new to working on cylinders and i was wondering if you guys could tell me how much torque needs to be applied to piston retaining bolt im working on various cylinders on a 580L thanks in advance

 

[davetile]

200 bucks is a good deal. The rebuild kit for a 580 super E cylinder alone is around 60 bucks. I've done about 10 cylinders on different machines and it is messy and sometimes extremely difficult to get em apart. Especially the gland bolt.

 

[carogator]

Sorry

 

[carogator]

torques

Gland nut torque-3-1/2" 350 ft. Lbs/8 drops loctite/packing nut 200 ft. Lbs./4 drops loctite/ piston nut-600 ft. Lbs.
Gland nut torque-4" 400 ft. Lbs./10 drops loctite/packing nut 200 ft. Lbs./ 4 drops loctite /piston nut- 600 ft. Lbs.
Gland nut-4-1/2" 350/400 ft. Lbs./12 drops loctite/packing nut 200 ft. Lbs./ 4 drops loctite/piston nut 600 ft. Lbs.
Gland nut 5" 350 ft. Lbs./12 drops loctite/packing nut 200 ft. Lbs./ 4 drops loctite/ piston nut 600 ft. Lbs.