Cylinder Help

[willie59]

Nice specs carogator. I have one question though; Loctite on a gland? I have never done that, and don't know that I would consider doing that. Those things have a tendency to "Loctite" themselves without any help.

 

[carogator]

this is recommended on the cylinders by the manual. i only use it when i am sure i won't need to go back any time soon. 250 degrees will dissolve the loctite for removal.
the gland nut doesn't get the loctite. i tried to make a chart but it won't print the way i set it up , first loctite on packing nut and second loctite on piston nut. maybe that is better.

 

[willie59]

this is recommended on the cylinders by the manual. i only use it when i am sure i won't need to go back any time soon. 250 degrees will dissolve the loctite for removal.

I understand, and I agree that's what the manual recommends. But it's been my experience that I could probably count on 2 fingers the number of times I've run across a loose gland when building a cylinder. On the other hand, I more often find them tighter than tryin' to get money out of my wallet. Therefore, it just seems unnecessary to me. And yes, it does take very little heat to release Loctite. But, I never apply heat to a cyl/gland connection except as a last resort. So, an unsuspecting me, would begin the process of removing the gland. Eventually, I may get the gland to start turning, maybe even be successful in removing it...very hard, just to discover someone put Loctite on the gland. :Banghead I just don't see where it's necessary.

 

[carogator]

thats why i put in there the last post that the gland nut doesn't get the loctite

 

[willie59]

LoL, I got ya'...clarity is a good thing.

 

[Tinkerer]

J.I. Case has a good method (IMHO) of keeping a gland nut tight by using index screws at the gland nut and barrel joint. It would be easy to put one on any hyd. cylinder. Like ATCOEQUIP said , they rarely ever get loose.

 

[davetile]

my buddy has a 98 555 ford. The gland bolt came out while he was using the machine on the dipper cylinder. He had to get a bigger bolt and tap the chrome part. He tightened it as hard as he could with a 4 foot pipe wrench on a 3/4 inch drive socket. He felt it about to happen again on the job so he took the machine home and took it apart again before it totally came out again. Same thing, the bolt was backing out. He talked to a backhoe mechanic that looked up the ft lbs for the bolt. It was I believe 2400 ft lbs! He had the mechanic put it on with a multiplier wrench with the correct torque setting.

 

[LowBoy]

I have an old 1984 JCB 1400B TLB, that I only use around the yard. Plowing snow the other day...and all of a sudden I heard a BANG, look at the front bucket curl cylinder, and it's shaped like a "U". Never in my life have I seen that one. Only thing I can think of is water got behind the piston somehow, froze...and when I retracted the rod she didn't like it.

Anybody here have an idea on a salvage yard for a used cylinder for this dinosaur, or something of that nature? I think if I brought it to the hydraulic shop and had a new rod put in it'd cost as much as a new complete cylinder...? Just weighing the options, hoping for the best, expecting the worst I guess. Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Welder Dave]

I'd guess you hit something solid buried in the snow to bend the rod like that. Did you have the bucket tilted down at steep angle to clear packed snow and ice? At least on skid steers that's a common way to bend cylinders when the operator isn't using his head. Bucket tilted straight down, front wheels a foot off the ground and full speed ahead. I don't think the hydraulics would have enough power on their own to bend a cylinder like that. It should be a lot less getting a new rod made than a new cylinder. They can cut the end off and weld it to the new rod.

 

[Billrog]

The relief valve would kick in before the rod bent using just hydraulics, my guess Dave is right .

 

[LowBoy]

I'd guess you hit something solid buried in the snow to bend the rod like that. Did you have the bucket tilted down at steep angle to clear packed snow and ice? At least on skid steers that's a common way to bend cylinders when the operator isn't using his head. Bucket tilted straight down, front wheels a foot off the ground and full speed ahead. I don't think the hydraulics would have enough power on their own to bend a cylinder like that. It should be a lot less getting a new rod made than a new cylinder. They can cut the end off and weld it to the new rod.

By no means did I hit anything. That loader was in mid air, I was traveling across the driveway moving snow. I went to adjust the angle of the bucket in mid air and I wasn't looking straight ahead; I was glancing elsewhere or else I'd have caught this. It was quick too, as I was curling all the while with my hand on the lever, continuous pressure on the lever and it just went BANG without any squealing or hydraulic noise which you would expect. That all adds up to a slug of ice behind the packing gland, because it did drop down into the negative temps. for a few days prior to this, and this day it was still only about 24*F out...not warm enough to thaw.

I think you may be under estimating the strength of these JCB hydraulics with all due respect. As old and tired as this machine is, I use it occasionally to lift truck cutoffs with rears in tact, among other things that tests it's capabilities around the yard at times and this thing will flatten the front tires right down to the ground and keep lifting until the rear end leaves the ground, hoe attachment and all.

I just came inside from disassembling the cylinder and removed the bent rod. There's absolutely nothing wrong inside, the piston packings were all fine, but my suspicions of water getting in that bore somehow, freezing and causing this seems more plausible than about any other theory I can come up with. The oil that came out of the bore when I popped the rod out was pure milk...a sign of water contamination. Why or where it came in is still a mystery, the fill cap is under the hood up by the radiator, under cover. But I've never changed the oil since I've owned it for 5 years, and I'd be surprised if the previous owners ever did either, so it may be due since it is after all, a 1984 era tractor.

After all this, I am thinking back a few years ago one winter now. I recall that one cylinder giving me trouble freezing up come to think of it, and I had to warm it with the torch to free it up. Of course once it did, I just forgot about it and went on with life. That's making sense more than ever now. See, I don't use it enough to worry about things as I should, it's a hydraulic helper when I need to lift something but it sits for long extended periods of time and I always say I'm going to spend a weekend on her and give her a full scale PM and do a bunch of small stuff to make it better...but never seem to find the time yet. It's done nothing but make life easier and never gave me a lick of trouble until now, so I should take the time to give it a good service now and preserve it another 35 years.

You're probably right too...I should just bring the rod to the hydraulic shop and they can make a new one easy enough. But the trouble with JCB is it's metric, so that may pose a challenge for them there.

I heard of a place in Meyerstown, Pa., Wenger's...that may have a used one. That's my first call tomorrow morning. If not, the 2nd will be the hydraulic shop.

Thanks for the input guys, good stuff here.

 

[LowBoy]

Forgot to mention, the links and pins are all just as lubed and loose as can be...I pulled the pins by hand even. So nothing in the linkage that bound up to cause this...only reasonable explanation is ice.

 

[Welder Dave]

You would think water would be in both cylinders and the entire hydraulic system. I would get the relief valve checked too.

 

[LowBoy]

You would, I'd agree. But for some reason as i mentioned, i had this same one freeze on me a couple years ago and nothing else has ever given me a problem...so it's isolated to that single barrel ironically.

 

[Willie B]

I, with my son have repacked numerous cylinders. usually, it isn't a big thing.

We had a boom cylinder on a 580K that appeared to have been shot. The tube had a ding I believe to have been caused by a bullet. I made a spanner for the sizeable gland nut. Ultimately two days later, a ten foot handle on the homemade spanner, we got it loose. The 6"? gland nut had been put on with a generous amount of red locktite. We had to heat it to get it off. It turned out we needed a new barrel and piston for the cylinder.

 

[Billrog]

I had a rod similar to that one have a hydraulic shop cut the eye off and weld it to a new one they made for $280.

 

[LowBoy]

I had a rod similar to that one have a hydraulic shop cut the eye off and weld it to a new one they made for $280.

That's where I'm headed I'll bet, after a couple of calls this morning to see it I can find a used one, but I have my doubts. Plus even if I do find a good, used cylinder, it'll probably be 500+ miles away and by the time I get it shipped I can have a new rod most likely.

I just had a 12' long stroke cylinder worked on at a hydraulic shop about 1.5 hrs. away. I have a heavy duty rollback truck and had the slide ram that pulls the bed fore and aft blow the gland right out the end of it about a month ago now...that one has an internal snap ring that holds the gland in place. The end of the barrel got spread open from hitting on the mount that the rear eye pins to...and finally mushroomed it enough to cause it to fail.

I pulled the cylinder out and brought it to them, and asked if they could possibly save it rather than me buy a whole new one (very expensive.) By cutting off 6" of barrel and rod, and re-cutting the snap ring groove they saved it for me for 1/2 the price of a new ram. Now all I have to do is re-install it...not an easy task by yerself...

 

[Willie B]

On Route 7 in Wallingford White Rocks Inn was created after a wealthy gentleman farmer died. The first Bed and breakfast owner bought a new 1985 International 385 utility with loader, and hog. The property, and tractor changed hands 4 times, but nobody used it. A couple years ago It went up for sale. It had 1100 hours. The cutting edge on the bucket was still painted. The hog was damaged, cause some knucklehead had it adjusted to lift into the tractor tires. I bought it. The top of the bucket was damaged, and one cylinder looked like yours. A friend immediately informed me it had been in "the pond". We got home, and started draining fluid. Sure enough, milky in the bottom.

I stopped payment on the check. Discussion got unpleasant, but I ended up with the tractor much cheaper. Ice had formed in the bent cylinder, the other cylinder was enough to bend the rod. Or' somebody tried to force it by pushing on a tree.

 

[Tinkerer]

You really need to do a complete hydraulic system flush, maybe twice to get pure uncontaminated oil in the entire system. Or, you may be replacing a pump and another cylinder rod.

 

[LowBoy]

On Route 7 in Wallingford White Rocks Inn was created after a wealthy gentleman farmer died. The first Bed and breakfast owner bought a new 1985 International 385 utility with loader, and hog. The property, and tractor changed hands 4 times, but nobody used it. A couple years ago It went up for sale. It had 1100 hours. The cutting edge on the bucket was still painted. The hog was damaged, cause some knucklehead had it adjusted to lift into the tractor tires. I bought it. The top of the bucket was damaged, and one cylinder looked like yours. A friend immediately informed me it had been in "the pond". We got home, and started draining fluid. Sure enough, milky in the bottom.

I stopped payment on the check. Discussion got unpleasant, but I ended up with the tractor much cheaper. Ice had formed in the bent cylinder, the other cylinder was enough to bend the rod. Or' somebody tried to force it by pushing on a tree.

At least you got a discount after all that, lol. Sounds like a nice find nevertheless.
I'm gonna do some research and see if i can find a hydraulic shop in around central Mass. maybe. Gotta be one around Worcester I'd say. I'm closer to there than Rutland in reality...I'm just gonna have a new rod made...and drop the oil out and replace it with new, see what happens. Ain't nothing a few hundred dollars can't solve, lol.