Champion 730A articulation wiring

[Welder Dave]

I did a little testing on my 730A today. There was 11.99 volts at the articulation switch which is good. I didn't get volts when pushing the switch but I think I was checking on the wrong terminal. Online it looks like the wire terminal on the opposite side you push the toggle switch is the one to check. There is definitely a solenoid missing on the articulation valve. It really hard to see in there because of the battery box but feels like the collar that goes behind the solenoid is still there. I will have more time tomorrow to look at it. Should the spool be able to be manually pushed?
I took the left transport lock pin out and the machine stayed straight for a bit but then moved enough I could get the right side pin out. After going back and forth about 250ft. on my semi curved driveway half a dozen times the machine drifted/articulated to the left about an inch (measuring by how much too long the pin now was). Is that an indication the articulation valve is sticking or the lock valve (for articulation) isn't working properly? I'm wondering if the machine was slowly drifting to the left that someone previous thought the solenoid was the problem and that's why it was removed? I wouldn't think it's normal for the articulation to drift but maybe it is? There is an extra lock pin that was left in the cab too. Only the right lock pin is original. The other 2 are just pieces of solid bar. I'm going to try putting power to the solenoid that's still there are see if it does anything. It's kind of seeming like it's a valve (hyd.) issue more than an electrical issue but I don't know the machine enough. Is there anything else I should check or test?

 

[Blue-Fox]

I was looking at some parts and service manuals (on the Sierra Park 730A web page) and your machine looks like it uses a different articulation valve with different solenoids that appear to face upwards. Mine has the solenoids horizontal on each end of the spool but might be missing one. That's good to know about taking the pins out. I was thinking of taking them out and seeing if the machine stays straight.

Yes you are correct about the solenoid valve block assembly being oriented differently and I’m sure there’s a difference in the flow but principle inside that block is the same. I have one of the older model horizontally opposed valve blocks mounted on my 740A that controls the snow gate.
Interestingly on my 720A there’s another same one of the later model vertically mounted solenoid blocks to run the wing.
I checked with Jade about the 3 way late model blocks and they run $1500 usd for a used one in unknown condition! That’s why I chose to check with local hydraulic shop for parts. He had no problem matching them up with common parts.

 

[Blue-Fox]

I did a little testing on my 730A today. There was 11.99 volts at the articulation switch which is good. I didn't get volts when pushing the switch but I think I was checking on the wrong terminal. Online it looks like the wire terminal on the opposite side you push the toggle switch is the one to check. There is definitely a solenoid missing on the articulation valve. It really hard to see in there because of the battery box but feels like the collar that goes behind the solenoid is still there. I will have more time tomorrow to look at it. Should the spool be able to be manually pushed?
I took the left transport lock pin out and the machine stayed straight for a bit but then moved enough I could get the right side pin out. After going back and forth about 250ft. on my semi curved driveway half a dozen times the machine drifted/articulated to the left about an inch (measuring by how much too long the pin now was). Is that an indication the articulation valve is sticking or the lock valve (for articulation) isn't working properly? I'm wondering if the machine was slowly drifting to the left that someone previous thought the solenoid was the problem and that's why it was removed? I wouldn't think it's normal for the articulation to drift but maybe it is? There is an extra lock pin that was left in the cab too. Only the right lock pin is original. The other 2 are just pieces of solid bar. I'm going to try putting power to the solenoid that's still there are see if it does anything. It's kind of seeming like it's a valve (hyd.) issue more than an electrical issue but I don't know the machine enough. Is there anything else I should check or test?

Yes the switch terminal opposite the lever angle will be the hot side when toggled.

No the spool stem and valve anssembly are enclosed behind a steel sleeve. The solenoid body just slips over that part and does its magic by electromagnetic field. I’ll see if I can find a picture for you.

Your drift is happening likely because of a stuck or malfunctioning spool which would control the locking function.

 

[Blue-Fox]

This is what the vertical style looked like and I’m sure yours are very similar - many snow plow systems use these too.

 

[Welder Dave]

I went back out today and the switch is good. Not sure about the wires that go to the solenoids though so I took the battery cover off and made a wire with a spade connector to fit the solenoid. No noise or anything from the solenoid but did have slight sparking on the battery post. I think this means the solenoid was getting power.
I took the nut off and the sleeve and there was quite a bit of corrosion. I tried to get the solenoid off but it was stuck pretty good. I'm wondering if it could have rust or corrosion between the solenoid and the shaft it fits over? After much prying and beating on the prybar I got it to move back about 3/8 of an inch. If It might have been good I've probably wrecked it now. Should the solenoid slide on and off pretty easily? There is another solenoid valve from a snow wing that isn't being used. The solenoids look the same except the one not used has wires coming out instead of a spade connector. I was thinking I could use them if they work. I got a price for a new solenoid but don't know if
hyd. shop could match it for less money? It seemed a little high but I have no idea what solenoids cost. I'm not sure if the articulation valve can be rebuilt or not. I got a price for a used valve that wasn't too bad. I'm not sure if an articulation valve could be tested before being installed?? The lock valve is part of valve. I'm thinking I should keep trying to get the solenoid off of the existing valve to see if there is a lot of corrosion. If the solenoids from the snow wing fit I could try them to see if the valve works? Kind of a pain for me if I have to take the valve off. It's a lot harder for me to do repairs in awkward positions than it was a few years ago and it's hard to find anybody to help me. It's really frustrating. I'm fatigued and aching before I even start and can't afford a service truck to come out. I've been thinking a lot lately maybe it's time to sell the land and the equipment because I just don't have the energy since the cancer diagnosis and treatments. I wish the aching and fatigue could go into remission but it doesn't seem to be improving. It really sucks.

 

[Blue-Fox]

Before I had a DVOM that would beep in testing - I used a low air dash buzzer set up with some alligator clips to test far away circuits. One good thing about them old buzzers is that they also put enough load on an average circuit to test if a relay is functioning well. If the relay is failing or you have poor connections your buzzer pitch will be all over the place.
Yes the solenoids normally just slip right off once you have the nut off, though sometimes I’ve seen some of those thin tinnerman style bevel retainer washers holding the unit under that nut. Your corrosion is a problem. I always grease the stems with some dielectric grease.
Yes your solenoid action should create an audible click or thump noise if it’s functioning. Your wing solenoid should work just fine as long as the stem is the same diameter. Most of them are common sizes.
There’s many combinations of wiring styles that are made for different installations but they all function more or less the same.

 

[Blue-Fox]

Those valve bodies look interchangeable and are likely set up with the same NC/NO design. (Normally Closed / Open) you might just swap that guy out and get back in the game.

 

[Blue-Fox]

I went back out today and the switch is good. Not sure about the wires that go to the solenoids though so I took the battery cover off and made a wire with a spade connector to fit the solenoid. No noise or anything from the solenoid but did have slight sparking on the battery post. I think this means the solenoid was getting power.
I took the nut off and the sleeve and there was quite a bit of corrosion. I tried to get the solenoid off but it was stuck pretty good. I'm wondering if it could have rust or corrosion between the solenoid and the shaft it fits over? After much prying and beating on the prybar I got it to move back about 3/8 of an inch. If It might have been good I've probably wrecked it now. Should the solenoid slide on and off pretty easily? There is another solenoid valve from a snow wing that isn't being used. The solenoids look the same except the one not used has wires coming out instead of a spade connector. I was thinking I could use them if they work. I got a price for a new solenoid but don't know if
hyd. shop could match it for less money? It seemed a little high but I have no idea what solenoids cost. I'm not sure if the articulation valve can be rebuilt or not. I got a price for a used valve that wasn't too bad. I'm not sure if an articulation valve could be tested before being installed?? The lock valve is part of valve. I'm thinking I should keep trying to get the solenoid off of the existing valve to see if there is a lot of corrosion. If the solenoids from the snow wing fit I could try them to see if the valve works? Kind of a pain for me if I have to take the valve off. It's a lot harder for me to do repairs in awkward positions than it was a few years ago and it's hard to find anybody to help me. It's really frustrating. I'm fatigued and aching before I even start and can't afford a service truck to come out. I've been thinking a lot lately maybe it's time to sell the land and the equipment because I just don't have the energy since the cancer diagnosis and treatments. I wish the aching and fatigue could go into remission but it doesn't seem to be improving. It really sucks.

Sucks not having any help for sure. Wish I was near by I would come give you a hand.

I can’t say I’m in the same spot you are in by any means but I was all busted up and got where I couldn’t function much at all, ended up with killer headaches that wouldn’t go away. Felt like I was in a death spiral. Ended up had 7 neck and lumbar spinal surgeries and both shoulders torn most of the parts fully disconnected so had to be rebuilt all within about 4 years. Things were good until we found the last job got infected with Staph in my humerus and grew a big abscess that ate my tricep and all them bugs chewed up my bone marrow and muscles and everything inside for almost 100 days. I was a near death and sick sick by only the grace of God I was alive. Most people die in 48 hours that get Staph in the blood stream because it goes straight after your heart tissues and it cannot be stopped. They almost amputated my whole left shoulder. Gave me a less than 10% chance of survival and told me to make my affairs in order before surgery which was in line 1 hour. 8 hours of surgery and then 2 weeks in quarantine until they proved all of my infection to be non contagious or etc. Then 16 weeks of 24hr IV antibiotic pumps nuked my guts, nuked my veins. I’m three years past now and I don’t think I’ll ever be the same again, still have bad days, never feels good to eat anything, but they aren’t as common as they used to be. It’s gone from every day sucked with aches and pain in my whole body to just a random day or night now.
Hang on buddy and even if it’s just in your mind - fight like crazy. Keeping your mindset on winning the battle every day is a big part of being past the whole thing. The cells all follow the signal from the brain. Staying busy with stuff will keep you from going crazy.

 

[Welder Dave]

Other than the wire connections I think the solenoids from the wing would fit. Of course it depends if they work. I read about putting dielectric grease on the shafts. Championguy is going to get me a price on a used valve with 2 solenoids. I'm guessing solenoids like that either work of they don't if given the correct voltage. I don't know if it's worth trying to rebuild the valve or just putting a used one on with working solenoids? A used valve with only 1 solenoid is about the same price as a new solenoid. I guess it would be good to check the solenoids on the wing valve. They are really easy to get to.

Wow, I really feel for you. It makes what I'm going through seem pretty minor in comparison. I got C-diff. before I had my back repaired and that was probably the worst. It causes severe dehydration and people can die from it. My back was in so much pain I was basically stuck in bed. I had no control over any bodily functions. I had a mat on the bed and was wearing incontinence underwear but it was only good for maybe 3 times. I had about 20 mishaps in about 15 hours. It was just bile coming out of me. After a few hours I started throwing up uncontrollably with no notice. It was like I was trying to pull string out of my mouth. I laid there helpless kind of thinking this is the end. At the time I was almost hoping I could just go to sleep and not wake up. I'm much better now and it's mostly frustration that I'm so fatigued and need help doing even simple things. I'm hoping I can find some help to get the articulation valve out but hate asking for help taking messy hyd's. apart. I sprayed some PB Blaster on the shaft and will try some more to get the solenoid off. Maybe if I can get it off I can clean it up and try a solenoid to see if the valve moves. Still think there's a problem because the lock valve didn't hold the machine straight.

 

[Blue-Fox]

Yeah being unable to control your body, and the pain from impacted nerves, it’s horrible and nobody really gets it until they been there. When you really do know that “this is the end feeling” is a really sad and helpless feeling. I’m glad you’re past that man it’s life changing.

Yes solenoids either work or not - they are fine wire wound around a spool so the wire can break and then they fail to create a field. I have pulled many off and crocus cloth the rusty stem and put a new one on and away you go. There’s gobs of this stuff in Alaska set up on big fishing vessels that looks like it’s been on the bottom of the ocean its whole life and still functions just fine.

I wouldn’t be too scared of a good used part.

 

[Welder Dave]

It is a horrible feeling to almost wish you didn't have to continue and could just go to sleep.

I shined a light down at the bad solenoid and it is seized solid on the shaft. I managed to pry the metal cap back is all. I can see the copper wire wound up but it hasn't moved at all. Any idea's on how to get it off? It would be really nice to get it off and try a good coil to see what the valve does. If the valve is sticking or something, maybe working it a few times would free it up?? Having to take the valve off in the difficult area it's in sucks if the valve may be OK. I can see the hex for the stem but I'm worried that if I pulled that off the internal parts inside it would fall out and get lost.

 

[Blue-Fox]

Yes pain changes people, and once you get past it you realize you were a different person!

Since the solenoid coil is basically junk now, I would find a way to clamp that coil, like a pipe clamp or a vise grip and work it off there. If you can get on there to turn the hex below, which is the "cartridge" assembly you can screw it out of there and nothing should fall out, just leak fluid. Then it will be easier to get the stuck coil off.

 

[Welder Dave]

Well since my MX track is just too wet to be rideable next weekend I decided to work on the grader.
I was going to try and get all the hyd. lines loosened and the mounting nuts for valve so that when I had some help it would be easier to finish taking it out. I managed to get the top and 2 side hoses loose. The bottom hose I couldn't loosen. It's kind of a stupid design because the hose has a 90 on the end. It would be better if the hose had a straight fitting that went onto a 90 deg. adaptor. There's very little room to get a wrench in and very little you can turn the fitting. Thankfully I could sit under the grader and put my head up partially beside the engine and managed to get the 2 mounting nuts off the bottom. Never could have done it if I had to lay underneath. Then I figured I might as well try and take the top hoses and mounting nuts off. That went pretty good. Now the valve was at least loose but kind of stuck in there. I thought I could move it in a better position to get the bottom hose loose. I got it lowered a couple inches and then discovered the adaptor in the valve came loose instead of the hose. OK, plan B. Since the hose went straight back about 2 1/2' I figured I'd take the other end off. That came off good but the hose was really stiff with a bit of a curve in it. I tried to pull the valve out the top but no go, so I pryed the hose over to the other side of a suction hose. Then after a lot of manipulating the valve and then just yarding on it got it out with the hose attached. I spent over 3 hours on it but it was kind of a pride of accomplishment that I was able to get it out myself. I was also happily surprised I lost less than a litre of oil. I'm not sure if I should try and repair it of just put a used valve on instead? I think to get the coil off I'll use a grinder with a cutting disk. It's seized on there pretty good.

 

[Blue-Fox]

Yessir that’s progress! Get a good used valve and save that thing for misc parts.

 

[Welder Dave]

I'm wondering if the solenoid valve for the wing is the same valve except for the lock valve attached? Maybe I could modify it with parts from the articulation valve if I can't get a used articulation valve??

 

[Welder Dave]

I found a parts manual for the wing and it appears the wing valve is the same as the articulation valve. I think I'll see if those solenoids come off easily. I guess I could put 12 volts to them to see if they work. The only problem is one of the solenoids has had the wire ripped off. I'm wondering if I could take the cover off and fix the wire? It would be fantastic if I just had to change some fittings and could swap valves. The wing valve is nice and clean too.

 

[Blue-Fox]

I found a parts manual for the wing and it appears the wing valve is the same as the articulation valve. I think I'll see if those solenoids come off easily. I guess I could put 12 volts to them to see if they work. The only problem is one of the solenoids has had the wire ripped off. I'm wondering if I could take the cover off and fix the wire? It would be fantastic if I just had to change some fittings and could swap valves. The wing valve is nice and clean too.

I do know that on my Series 3 720A the wing valve and the articulation valve are the same part. Its very possible that you could pop that cap off and repair that wire. I've done a lot of that stuff in my bush fixing or whatever. Worst case you booger it up and need a new one anyway.

 

[Welder Dave]

Yes, they appear the same on the parts list except the wing valve uses smaller inlet and outlet hoses. Easy enough to switch the hose adaptors though. I haven't heard back from Championguy yet on a used valve with both solenoids. I was surprised how much new solenoids are. If I was lucky the wing valve solenoids are fine and I can repair the wire.

 

[Blue-Fox]

This is the snow gate and wing selectable valve unit on my 740, that’s like what you have. I’m guessing this was the popular unit still in 1990-92 because this machine has the later articulation valve. The manual valve allows you to select which accessory you want to run.

 

[Welder Dave]

The wing valve looks the same but I don't have a selector valve. I'd guess that was a dealer added aftermarket valve installed when the snow gate was put on. The same set up was used for quite a few years according to the parts manual. Interesting is the valve body has different part numbers based on the serial number but the internals are all the same for the most part.
I haven't heard back from Championguy yet but I'm thinking I'd have the best luck trying to swap the articulation valve with the wing valve. First I want to see if the coils come off easily. I'm really hoping they are usable. I'm wondering if I need to take the valve apart at all or can just try it out? Should the pins sticking out of the spool behind the coils push in to manually operate the valve? Should I put some oil in the valve before trying to check it? Is it worth seeing if the coils/valve work without trying to take them off? I have no idea how long the wing has been off but don't think that should affect the valve operation if the valve was working when the engine was on.