CAT getting nasty with workers in Canada

[GeoffD]

Like I said. I still doubt you know all the facts.

 

[BLASZER]

Apparently you know more than I........Please enlighten!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[absoluteequipme]

either way , agree or disagree , above or below board , Business has( and will most likely continue to) gone on this way since the first trade was made ( and hence the beginning of the " how to get ahead faster" mentallity ) . We will all carry the burdens that each has to bear , and in the end ...... well , the lawyers are the only ones really coming out ahead.

 

[cutting edge]

I read abscraperguy's link and in the commentary at the end, someone was making remarks about the filing of bankruptcy and cat buying this company out of bankruptcy, but it was told before that the business and company were making money, so which is it, was it a thriving financially sound business or did they in deed file bankruptcy and cat bought it out of bankruptcy?

EMD was a subsidary of GM that was making good money,good product and had 7 billion in orders on the books when CAT bought it.

It doesn't matter anymore though,the fine folks in Muncie will be taking over production now,albeit for McWages.

Iv'e heard that they are offering 13-15 bucks an hour for skilled trades at the new plant.

 

[watglen]

Wow this thread has stirred some emotions.

I have been following the story here in Ontario and damn near fell over when i heard the news the plant was closing. Something like this happening in Ontario lights a lot of fires in the media because it is happening so often these days. Ontario used to be the manufacturing powerhouse of Canada, and is now the rust belt north. Manufacturing in Ontario has fallen in stature to the point where agriculture is the biggest industry in Ontario now. Canada uses a system of transfer payments between provinces to move money from provinces who have to those who have not. Ontario used to be the big have province, but in recent years, the transfers have been flowing INTO Ontario! Its amazing how far we've fallen.

Anyway, back to EMD. Has anyone tripped over the fact that up until about 2005 the canadian dollar was tracking as low as $.65 to the greenback. It was easy to understand why CAT would want that plant. Its easy to understand why the plant was located in Canada, and making good profit.

But the dollar is at par now, and nothing CAT could do could change that. The only thing they could do is relocate the workforce south of the border.

Do the Math. When you sell a locomotive you sell it in US dollars. With a Canadian workforce, a lot of your expenses are in Canadian dollars. With a $1,000,000 Canadian weekly payroll, that's only $650,000 US. CAT cant lose. But as the dollar rose to par, the payroll moves up to $1,000,000 US. What do you do? You search out ways to regain your original advantage. If you can't trim payroll at the local plant, you move it to where you can...In this case, Muncie.

Unfortunately, there is a mass exodus from Ontario right now. We will be the new Pittsburgh in a few years. Such is life in a global economy.

My girlfriend works for an industrial packing company. The company did quite well over the years packing large and unusual items manufactured here, and shipping them all over the world. That business has transitioned to moving the whole factory. Now they just do one big move and the customer is gone forever.

People up here are yelling for the government to do something to stop CAT. I say like what??? What would you like them to do? If you implement a policy that makes it hard to close a plant, you reduce the likelihood a company will come in the first place. Its self defeating. The federal government has moved the corporate tax structure so it is now the most favorable in the developed world (so we are told) to attract investors. But there is nothing they can do when another jurisdiction offers no tax plus millions in other incentives.

I only know 1 thing. If you have a job, don't depend on it being there forever. Assume that one day you will have to make your own way, so plan on it. Have an out. Think about where you might be able to go if you can no longer go the job you have, and start cultivating those plans now.

I wish the best of luck to those affected in London.

Ken

 

[alco]

EMD was a subsidary of GM that was making good money,good product and had 7 billion in orders on the books when CAT bought it.

That's actually incorrect. EMD has not been a subsidiary of GM since GM sold EMD in 2005 to a group of investment holding companies led by Bershire Partners and Greenbrier Equity.

On top of that, though EMD was making money, it wasn't making tons of money, hence why it was sold. It also wasn't making a great product. For many years, development funding was sadly lacking, which caused the product lines to fall behind the times and have to chase the competition.

 

[muzy]

Thought I would keep all in the loop. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2012/02/06/wdr-caw-electro-motive-occupy.html Gusse we will see how this plays out. muzy

 

[David Schnider]

looking for asphalt overlays eastside? no need to look for more!

 

[CM1995]

looking for asphalt overlays eastside? no need to look for more!

David, obviously you did not take the warning I posted in this thread seriously - https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...quot-asphalt-overlay-demo&p=340682#post340682

So I am forced to use extreme prejudice and exercise my moderating duties.:cool2

 

[buddy605]

Politicians will never admit they are wrong international free trade does not benefit Canadians or Americans. Big company profits benefits from international free trade. Now all the manufacturing jobs have gone to cheaper labour with no human rights.

 

[Abscraperguy]

Politicians will never admit they are wrong international free trade does not benefit Canadians or Americans. Big company profits benefits from international free trade. Now all the manufacturing jobs have gone to cheaper labour with no human rights.

Actually I was just reading today that, some American companies are bring manufacturing jobs back to America because
1. When including all shipping, labour in the USA is cheaper in some areas than China but only without the union. I can easily see that the key there is WITHOUT the union. Just a point how much the union costs is take a look at a situation here in Canada. Union boss takes a 600k bonus the same year a large percentage of his workers are laid off. We can decry the less than ideal pay and less than ideal conditions but a poor paying job is better than no job.
2. "made in America" is worth a lot to garner sales these days
3. Less hassle. Make it in house to company specs that won't be marginalized. With manufacturing in house, in home country, you don't need to worry about the manufacturer quitting for you and promptly building the same product to sell under their own name with your tooling and your R&D.

Like I said. I still doubt you know all the facts.

If you're so sure that someone doesn't know all the facts then set the record straight. Your comment doesn't add anything to a discussion. Unless you feel the need to protect Cat then say that. If you have shares in Cat and so want to stand up for Cat because of that don't feel bad. You just made a lot of money this last quarter, in fact Cat says record profits. And with combining all their locomotive plants in Muncie they stand make you a lot more in the future, albeit on the backs of some inconvenienced families. Notice I said inconvenienced. The way Western Canada is booming if people are willing to move there IS work.

 

[alco]

If you're so sure that someone doesn't know all the facts then set the record straight. Your comment doesn't add anything to a discussion. Unless you feel the need to protect Cat then say that. If you have shares in Cat and so want to stand up for Cat because of that don't feel bad. You just made a lot of money this last quarter, in fact Cat says record profits. And with combining all their locomotive plants in Muncie they stand make you a lot more in the future, albeit on the backs of some inconvenienced families. Notice I said inconvenienced. The way Western Canada is booming if people are willing to move there IS work.

Abscraperguy, The reply you quoted was about a Cat dealer, not Cat itself. It was bordering on a hijack, and has nothing to do with what you have been talking about. So don't think that GeoffD was talking to you, it was directed elsewhere.

 

[Abscraperguy]

Abscraperguy, The reply you quoted was about a Cat dealer, not Cat itself. It was bordering on a hijack, and has nothing to do with what you have been talking about. So don't think that GeoffD was talking to you, it was directed elsewhere.

Ya thanks for the clarification. In later thinking about it, I was suspicious that I had taken that comment wrong.

 

[Davvinciman]

I only know 1 thing. If you have a job, don't depend on it being there forever. Assume that one day you will have to make your own way, so plan on it. Have an out. Think about where you might be able to go if you can no longer go the job you have, and start cultivating those plans now.

I wish the best of luck to those affected in London.

Ken

Which are what? To let corporations say we want to sell products in your country but we don't want to support your workforce because we make more profit by dealing with foreign countries that up until a few decades ago wanted to wipe us off the planet? Make some rules that make sense. Not everyone is going to be a stock trader or middleman. Wait till the next election and see how far that "corporations have a right to do whatever they want" philosophy gets you.

 

[JGS Parts]

Some would say that Cat's stance on taking tough decisions early in the piece rather than let the business go down the pan (the Big Three US auto companies would be a typical example) is why they are an extremely successful company rather than an unsuccessful one .......... I wouldn't disagree.

Hang on are you saying the american Auto industry is fine? i thought they had to get bailed out not so long ago? from the government something like 34 Billion USD

 

[JGS Parts]

Which are what? To let corporations say we want to sell products in your country but we don't want to support your workforce because we make more profit by dealing with foreign countries that up until a few decades ago wanted to wipe us off the planet? Make some rules that make sense. Not everyone is going to be a stock trader or middleman. Wait till the next election and see how far that "corporations have a right to do whatever they want" philosophy gets you.

What contrys are you talking about? China , Russia , Germany or who? i mean really?

 

[Garrie Denny]

Just to lighten up this thread a bit, here in Aus current price average for milk is $2,bread $2-3, diesel !.49-1.54 per litre, unleaded petrol 1.48-1.52 per litre, remember our gallon equalls 4.94 litres which is different to your american-canadian gallon eqivilant, thats my Aussy 2c worth you all have a good life, im gonna get another beer from the fridge and read some more great threads.

 

[alco]

Garrie,

It really is amazing the difference around the world, isn't it?

Just to clarify one thing though, your gallon is 4.55 litres, which is the Imperial gallon, and the same as Canada's. It's the US that uses a different gallon, at 3.78 litres. Not that it really matters, but I think it's good to have the right info to go off of.

 

[D6 Merv]

petrols $2.18 a litre on this side of the ditch garrie; diesels $1.52.

 

[alco]

I'm not sure what Gasoline is going for here, but I know Diesel was 117.9 cents a litre yesterday.