Case 580CK finally started but has some problems

[MrKool]

Thanks again Tinkerer, maybe I can use something cheap to flush the hydraulics before putting in the Hy-Tran fluid.

Hey orville, that's just what I'm gonna try to do, cause it's leaking so bad I'm afraid to run it and take a chance on burning out the pump.

So is that a good idea? Will it burn the pump out if it runs without oil in it? How long can it run without oil before it's damaged?

Is there a way to disconnect the pump so I can get it loaded on a trailer without damaging it?

My daughter works at Tractor Supply and can get me a discount on Hydraulic Fluid, will theirs work in this machine ok?

Thanks

 

[Tinkerer]

DO NOT run the pump without oil !! If you damage or ruin the pump, the whole hydraulic system will have metal in it. If you are losing oil constantly from the swing cylinder the swing valve is either stuck in the swing position or there is a problem with a spool in the valve assembly. You could try to put a chain on the boom to prevent the weight of the boom from making it try to swing. Also you can take the hoses off of the cylinders and couple them together with pipe fittings Tractor Supply should have the fittings. Be careful of the boom swinging when you are working on it. Put decent hyd. oil in the tank, that is no place to go cheap. Sooner or later all the nasty oil has to come out of the whole system.

 

[orville]

I would not run a pump without oil, a cylinder should not leak excessive oil unless you are using that cylinder. You must have a bad leak somewhere from the pump to the valve body. I once had a real bad hose and wrapped inner tube on the leak and clamped with hose clamps so I could move it to a convenient place to work on it.

 

[packratc]

I buy all my fluids at Tractor Supply. Try PATCO down near the the driver's license testing place for making your hoses. They've been really helpful making mine and being sympathetic to me knowing a lot. Packratc

 

[MrKool]

Thanks Tinkerer, orville and packratc,


I was just looking at the oil at Tractor Supply, a little cornfused about how much it takes and how much I should use just to drive/run it for 30 minutes,
long enough to get it on the trailer.

The manual says Reservoir refill is 17 gallons, but the Loader/Backhoe Capacity is 28 gallons, so I'm wondering, since the tank is empty, can I get by
with 17 or do I have to fill it to 28 gal?

It's going to be used as a flush for the first run, then after I get it back to my shop, then filters and other minor leaking seals then a full 28 gallon fill.

Does this sound like it'll work and not burn up the pump?

 

[nova481]

This is from the operators manual

 

[mikebramel]

You would be better off capping the swing cylinder hoses at the cylinders or looping the valve body if you do not want to lose all the oil.

If the cylinder is being pressurized all the time on an open center system like this you probably have a worn spool or o rings. Some leakage is normal.

The cylinder absolutely has to be repacked. The good thing is that machine is so popular you will be able to take the cylinder apart, and get the seals the same day from a supplier

 

[packratc]

Don't know that I wouldn't pull the boomon around with my truck as it looks like it's locked in the upright position. Then I'd chain up the stabilizers and chain the boom in place to keep it from moving. Then I might take the backhoe pump off of the front of the engine. Oh, You've got to lift up the loader with something, a tractor loader, and block it up with angle iron on the cylinders. If you do all that you should be able to just fill the transmission with the TSC oil and see of this thing will move. I can't tell if you're going to trailer it or drive it home. It takes a pretty good trailer and truck to haul around 14000 lbs. Do you even know if the thing will pull itself? I guess what I'm suggesting in a nutshell is to bypass the hoe and try to get the tractor rolling. You do have the engine running on it's own fuel supply don't you? TSc won't have the fittings to put these hoses together. Go to PATCO but take your hoses with you so they can match up the fittings. Good luck, packratc

 

[packratc]

I forgot to mention, since we all know that you're wealthy, I mean if you own a backhoe it's a given, buy 10, 5 gallon buckets of the cheap hydralic fluid in the yellow buckets with the green tops at TSC and with the rest of your money buystock in TSC or Case. I made a pipe funnel that fits both the loader and the transmission. If you're working by yourself you'll need a stout funnel as it's tough on an old man like me to suspend that 5 gallon bucket with your arms while it all drains out on your feet. You don't want to starve either the transmission pump, if you have a shuttle, nor the backhoe pump for fluid. The backhoe pump cost me $500 & I thought it was a deal. That's the one that's behind the grill and attaches to the front engine pulley. It'll take at least 5 gallons, if I remember correctly, to get the shuttle pressure guage up to 100lbs+ to get the transmission even interested in turning the wheels. That's especially true with this cold weather. And, since you can't use the stabilizers to get the wheels off the ground, it'll take longer. When I start mine these cold mornings I lift the rear wheels off the ground and put it in gear and get the wheels turning both ways before I ever try to move it. Good luck, packratc

 

[packratc]

I forgot to mention, since we all know that you're wealthy, I mean if you own a backhoe it's a given, buy 10, 5 gallon buckets of the cheap hydralic fluid in the yellow buckets with the green tops at TSC and with the rest of your money buystock in TSC or Case. I made a pipe funnel that fits both the loader and the transmission. If you're working by yourself you'll need a stout funnel as it's tough on an old man like me to suspend that 5 gallon bucket with your arms while it all drains out on your feet. You don't want to starve either the transmission pump, if you have a shuttle, nor the backhoe pump for fluid. The backhoe pump cost me $500 & I thought it was a deal. That's the one that's behind the grill and attaches to the front engine pulley. It'll take at least 5 gallons, if I remember correctly, to get the shuttle pressure guage up to 100lbs+ to get the transmission even interested in turning the wheels. That's especially true with this cold weather. And, since you can't use the stabilizers to get the wheels off the ground, it'll take longer. When I start mine these cold mornings I lift the rear wheels off the ground and put it in gear and get the wheels turning both ways before I ever try to move it. Good luck, packratc

 

[packratc]

MrKool, I sent you, or tried to send you, a private message on this forum. Never done it before so it's anybody's guess if you get it. packratc

 

[MrKool]

Yeah, Diamond Equip has the packing, just have to get the number off the cylinder and have to get a gland removal tool and get some hydraulic oil and with gasoline at $3.59 here,
I'm going to have some money in this hoe before I even get to use it.

So, mikebramel, I can cap or connect the swing cylinder hoses and chain the backhoe down till I can get it loaded?

hey nova, what's the least amount of hyd oil that I can put in to run it to get it loaded up? of course, after I fix the serious leaking swing cylinder.

Last time, I lifted the rear wheels off the ground and one of them spins when I put it in gear, so pretty sure it'll move, but that'll be tested again after the hyd leaks fixed.

I posted on Craigslist labor section for help with getting it here and got several offers up to $300, but one guy has a 2010 F350 Super Duty dually with a 28 ft goose neck tandem axle trailer with brakes and ramps
said he can do it anytime for $115, so maybe that won't be a problem.

Now my question is what fitting do I need to buy to connect the swing hoses?

 

[Tinkerer]

Now my question is what fitting do I need to buy to connect the swing hoses?

You would need two at least one swivel fitting that fits one of the hoses and have standard pipe threads on the end of it. One pipe nipple, and another swivel or non-swivel fitting for the other hose. There is a Farm and Fleet store near me and they have these fittings in stock all the time. They are about $4.00 each.
You Don't have to connect the swing hoses together. Each one can be capped. Any shop that makes hydraulic hoses should have the caps and / or plugs for most common size hoses.
The picture I am posting is just to give you an example of what to look for.

 

[packratc]

Probably wouldn't buy a glan removal tool yet. I've been able to take all my cylinders apart with a large pipe wrench so far. The next one will prove me liar, though. As to the inner nut on the piston, I've heated a few with a torch & had to buy a 3/4 impact. The torch is needed when the last builder of the cylinder followed the directions & used locktite when reassembling. Good Luck, packratc

 

[Tinkerer]

I would never recommend using pipe wrench on a hydraulic cylinder gland. A person might get lucky and have a gland come loose real easy using that method. But I have seen too many glands severely damaged because the pipe wrench gouged a really tight flange. Beg,borrow or buy a gland wrench. If you do buy one it will be the best $30.00 tool you ever purchased.

 

[packratc]

Tinkerer has got the best advice. I'm just telling of my own experiences with my one old hoe. The correct tool is always the best way to go. As I'm not through with all my cylinders, where can I get the right glan tool for $30, Tinkerer? Thanks, packratc

 

[Tinkerer]

Here is where I purchased my gland wrench.. It has gone up a little in price since I bought it. $36.80. OTC brand replacement pins do fit it. If you don't have spare pins it almost certain one of them will fall out of the wrench when you aren't looking ! I couldn't even find the one I lost with a metal detector.
http://www.amazon.com/CTA-Tools-860...d=1362776460&sr=8-4&keywords=gland+nut+wrench

 

[MrKool]

Alright, I ordered the wrench, I might tack weld them pins in place, it looks like it's been into several times.



Also, what's the best way to remove the pins that hold the cylinder head ?

 

[trevor b]

do not weld the pins! they are ment to flip end for end for differant size cyl's trevor b

 

[Tinkerer]

Is there a reason you are considering tack welding the pins ? Not a criticism just curious why. I am not familiar with your backhoe, but can't you put a punch on the bottom of them force them up ? Or are they in a blind hole ?