Bobcat T190 Engine help.

[greenhead21]

Got muffler in and installed still didn't change a thing. Checked timing and as you Black71gp, the 18* mark comes into the window on the bottom and the fuel does not start to flow until the mark in just about to leave the window. I would say maybe 3 to 6 degrees after the mark on the flywheel passes the mark on the window opening. Not sure if it needs to be advanced or not but I never touched this when the head was off. I checked the fuel shut off solenoid and that tested good. I checked track tension and that was not out of adjustment. I have not been able to find a compression tester, but I don't know if that is the issue. Start up is all good, will take right off and even in cold weather here in ND 5 degrees yesterday without being plugged in took 2 cycles on the glow plugs and started up. I am going to call our diesel shop here and see if they can test the injection pump it could be over fueling. I am about out of ideas and a few more steps away from taking it to bobcat shop.

 

[greenhead21]

The more I think about it, it has something to do with the head being installed. Black71gp and Tillys26 (whom is in this thread https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...-Bobcat-t190-power-loss-new-motor-maybe-turbo ), like mine have all had the head replaced. I took off the head and installed a new one and it ran fine before the head cracked. Now just changing the head shouldn't have caused a blockage in the fuel line or a clogged intake, however it is possible, but do not think it would be have been created by changing the head. I was going to ask if there is a way to check the turbo besides pulling the intake tube to check the impeller and its play on the shaft within the housing, but why would the turbo all of a sudden fail or start to fail when it worked fine prior to the head removal. 3 machines same issues and relatively the same part was changed out. Unless there was something missed during installation or an aftermarket part was not to spec?

 

[sstocker31]

The injection pump looked changed before, so it could have been changed and never re timed?

Just a thought....If this has been changed in the past, can the timing get screwed up even though the front timing marks are lined up? In other words, is there a positive way to ensure alignment without removing the front cover?

And if this was changed, maybe the governor system wasn't reassembled correctly???

Just shootin' from the hip here....

 

[Black71gp]

Still trying to figure out what's up. Have had a few other projects going that are taking first priority. Been just reading an research I'll let ya know what else is found out. I'm about to pull the head to check the cylinder walls out and valves make sure nothing is cracked or messed up

 

[greenhead21]

Black71gp do you happen to know where you got the cylinder head that was installed on this machine? Was it an actual Kubota cylinder head or an aftermarket? The one I installed was from Kumar Bros USA wonder if the aftermarket head has something to do with the tolerances not being to spec or some other issue with the machining of the head.

 

[Blaster64]

I also have a t190 with kubota v2003-t-e
engine with same exact problem.I bought it used knowing it started hard and blew heavy black smoke under load, got it home found a cracked exhaust manifold, totally clogged air filter and a really bad turbo. I replaced all with new kubota parts about $1200. I fired it up,still started hard and smoked black at full throttle while traveling worse in reverse.engine just plain runs out of power.I used it all day around the farm thinking it would clean out it never did.
I pulled injectors today and noticed the head has been replaced also. I'm with you about something wrong with cylinder head???

 

[greenhead21]

Today I was finally able to get in touch with the trouble shooting guy at Kumar Bros. Kinda what I figured he would say was what he did. He hasn't seen this issue at all so doesn't believe it is a head issue. He figured it was a bad piston or ring. Doesn't make much sense to me but that was his take on it. He said that the head they machine is universal fit for V1903 V2003 and V2203. Does anyone know if this is correct that the heads on this engines are all interchangable? He was saying the only difference was that the Tier I Tier II and Tier III just have different coolant passage paths but the rest of the head is the same. So he is saying that because it is only a difference with the coolant passage ways it would not affect the performance of the machine. I thought the Tier I Tier II and Tier III versions of these engines had to do with the updates in emissons and designs of the engines? Am I wrong or can someone explain what the Tier I II and III stand for or what the differenece is. I called Bobcat today and they want $1,800+ for just the head. SO with that said not excited about changing that head again. Any help on these questions would be helpful.

 

[Blaster64]

I dropped my injectors off at the local diesel shop today,the owner with 30+ years said it's simple if you have 350+psi in each cylinder your top and bottom end are good forget about head. It may start hard with worn injectors but kubota injectors won't over fuel (black smoke)You should start with air in or air out. 1.Air filters 2.turbo 3.wrong gaskets 4.clogged exhaust 5.pump timing. Or my fear excessive load on engine / hydraulic pump problem.

 

[Black71gp]

Black71gp do you happen to know where you got the cylinder head that was installed on this machine? Was it an actual Kubota cylinder head or an aftermarket? The one I installed was from Kumar Bros USA wonder if the aftermarket head has something to do with the tolerances not being to spec or some other issue with the machining of the head.

I did not do the work, wS done before I got the machine and I know it was changed because it is a light blue paint color rather than the dark grey rest of the engine is. It possibly might be messed up again

 

[greenhead21]

I talked with a friend that works at a local Case IH dealership here in ND and he thinks it is an air issue. He does not think that a universal head would work on these Kubota engines. Thinking about it maybe the air intake coming off the turbo and into the intake manifold and then into the head is differenet sizes by a touch from OEM. If the air passages in the head were slightly different from the OEM Kubota head that would make sense as it would be pinching the amount of air getting into the cylinders down. Anyone have any thoughts.

 

[jcb jeff]

Greenhead21
Just a thought ( sorry if its all ready been discussed) have you got a hydraulic service in operation ie a sticky pedal or lever not a lot but just enough to load the hydraulic system a bit which will make it difficult starting may be worth throwing a gauge on main relief its a cheap test had a few mini diggers with breaker pedals just sticking as the rocker pedal on the floor was rusty and had been pressed which caused difficult starting and lots of smoke on start up dealer said it was a new engine required in this one.

 

[greenhead21]

Black71gp has a hard starting issue with his machine I believe. jcb jeff this information maybe helpful for him and would make sense if that was a problem. Blaster64 any other update? I have been busy have not had a chance to dig into my machine lately.

 

[Blaster64]

Ok all 4 injectors needed new nozzles, $325.00 with new seals. I installed them last Friday hoping this would solve my problems it didn't. I will say it starts better but still blows heavy black smoke while moving full speed.
My next move is to install a boost gauge
To make sure turbo is making enough boost. Does anybody know much boost it should make?

 

[willie59]

I don't know what year model engines we're discussing here, but do they have an EGR system?

 

[Black71gp]

No EGR on mine, early 2000's.

mine starts a little better after the timing and injection pump build. not like my old 753 used to, but still starts on first crank cycle instead of two or three. Still no idea. Having another guy come next week to look at it. He was thinking possibly it over heated, cracked the head but maybe also has a cracked ring, or secondary ring? not sure why compression would be in the 390 range if that was the case. Going to re-check the dealers numbers and see if they were correct or not.

I kept thinking hydraulic issue was well? but the constant haze of smoke while running tosses me off that. I should disconnect the hydraulics belt and see how it starts and revs up. Been looking for another engine, or possible trade it in for something else. if it was an easy fix that would be great, but this is starting to become a real pain.

 

[Black71gp]

so mine for sure starts a lot better than it ever did, so maybe that was part of injection pump leaking and or timing. So that issue seems to be better. but the same smoke always, and bad up a hill with levers fully forward like others.

sucks this seems to be such an impossible fix. I started looking around for a used engine, might just swap it out and see what happens. wondering if during the overheat process a ring is cracked or broke? and only shows up under major load? just guessing here.

 

[jcb jeff]

Black71gp
Daft thought as not 100 % with the engine in the T190 do they have different thickness head gaskets and the wrong thickness has been put on at sometime.
Had this with a 2002 Toyota Hilux pick up always lacking full power and a little Smokey at times just a thought to throw in your mix.

 

[willie59]

Black71gp
Daft thought as not 100 % with the engine in the T190 do they have different thickness head gaskets and the wrong thickness has been put on at sometime.
Had this with a 2002 Toyota Hilux pick up always lacking full power and a little Smokey at times just a thought to throw in your mix.

Good point jcb jeff, I myself don't know if different thickness head gaskets are out there, but it would make a difference believe it or not. I once worked on a Detroit 4-53 that had a slight miss on #4 cylinder, rev it up and the miss went away, only happened at idle. Pulled the head and found #4 was coming up short by less than 1/8 of an inch, maybe 3/32", from a bent connecting rod. That slight distance affected compression and gave #4 a miss, a head gasket that's too thick would affect all cylinders.

 

[thepumpguysc]

as long as we're swappin storys.. LOL
I HAD 1 THAT HAD A HORENDUS SKIP.. AFTER.. 1 of our techs had pulled the injectors and had them tested..I was about to pull the head when I thought.. I wonder.?? I pulled the suspected cylinder and found he had put 2 gaskets in the hole.. FORGOT TO REMOVE THE OLD 1..
Just sayin'>> a few thousands can make a WORLD of difference.. in timing..

 

[jcb jeff]

Thinking along the idea about the head gasket thickness also Willie 59 comment would it be possible to pop out the injectors and get a tig welding rod down the injector hole so as you can measure the that all pistons are at the same height i now its a crude way of checking piston deck height or bumping clearance but my have a bent rod just more to throw in the mix and a cheap easy check as long as long as its direct injection.