Are unions really evil?

[Bluwenis]

The median weekly earnings for construction workers in the U.S. last year was $1,000 for union members and just $624 for non-union workers, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

It especially pays if you're a UNION Operating Engineer! Members of the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 302 are earning $42.14 to $47.09 an hour right now in Washington state, and $41.08 to $48.20 an hour in Alaska. Plus, they’re getting:

Time-and-a-half after 8 hours and on Saturdays
Best pension in the business
Family health, dental and vision
Regular wage and benefit increases

You’re doing the work. Make sure you get paid!

Heavy construction equipment operators just like you are making more money, getting better benefits, and earning their retirement security. All because they have a union contract!

You owe it to yourself -- and to your family -- to make sure you are getting the wages, benefits and respect you deserve. Forget about whatever you’ve heard or been told about why you shouldn’t join a union. Decide for yourself!

 

[Turbo21835]

You are right, union pays better, no doubt about that. Time and a half after 8 hours? Not always true, that depends on the contract with the company you are working for. In 324 it is common that the contract is set up on 4-10 hour days, that means no OT until after 10 hours, or until friday.

Your health and pension are only as good as those running the program. Look at some of the iron hanger unions right now. A lot of them dont have a pension or healthcare program that looks too good. You only add to those when you are working too.

Good thing I dont put all my faith in a union. If so, I would have only worked 4 months last year. I show up early, take care of my machine, and go home late. The way i see it, if you are looking for someone to take care of you, you might as well just sign up for welfare.

 

[milling_drum]

Unions do provide a much better pay scale and working environment. Right to work states still get by somehow providing the same scale of quality work on public works projects as unions do but the people are paid much less. The choice of unionizing for those paid less in right to work states isn't there at all.

 

[stock]

Our news head lines

Government set to tell unions of huge cuts in public pay bill


MARK HENNESSY, Political Correspondent

THE MAJORITY of the €2 billion that must be cut from exchequer spending this year will have to come from pay cuts for civil and public servants, unions will be told by the Government next week.

Meanwhile, a public service union leader has warned members that the International Monetary Fund could be brought in if the Government cannot cut borrowing and bring the State’s finances back under control.


What do you think? well at least I have a job all be it a poorly paid one.



Stock

 

[AtlasRob]

:jerry :jerry

Do we have a smiley with a ticking time BOMB I think I can see a fuse.................burning

 

[special tool]

The median weekly earnings for construction workers in the U.S. last year was $1,000 for union members and just $624 for non-union workers, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

It especially pays if you're a UNION Operating Engineer! Members of the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 302 are earning $42.14 to $47.09 an hour right now in Washington state, and $41.08 to $48.20 an hour in Alaska. Plus, they’re getting:

Time-and-a-half after 8 hours and on Saturdays
Best pension in the business
Family health, dental and vision
Regular wage and benefit increases

You’re doing the work. Make sure you get paid!

Heavy construction equipment operators just like you are making more money, getting better benefits, and earning their retirement security. All because they have a union contract!

You owe it to yourself -- and to your family -- to make sure you are getting the wages, benefits and respect you deserve. Forget about whatever you’ve heard or been told about why you shouldn’t join a union. Decide for yourself!

Okay.
I want to ask you a question then.
Are you are registered Democrat, or Republican?

 

[Turbo21835]

Okay.
I want to ask you a question then.
Are you are registered Democrat, or Republican?

Thats neither here nor there, the union tells us who to vote for :stirthepot:

 

[stock]

Okay.
I want to ask you a question then.
Are you are registered Democrat, or Republican?

Which are which,fine gael or fianna fail ?

 

[Haul-Pak]

Forget about whatever you’ve heard or been told about why you shouldn’t join a union. Decide for yourself!

That's a No-Brainer for me, Union Membership is Mandatory here.

Seniorty is a big part of this Union, Guy's who have time in can sit back and relax while other's are just waiting for there lay-off papers. It dont matter if you can turn water into wine ..... Your History .....

 

[liebherr1160]

Define "evil" i see religion as evil ....but thats me ..

theres probably no God --so just relax and enjoy your life...


Anyway ...Union contracts are responsable for also inrceasing the wages and benifits of the non-union sector... sure you get $30 bucks on your check and i get $27..but my package is in excess of $44 dollars.. im currently with 721

when i was with 793 i got double time be-fore 7am and after 4pm .gaurnteed 8 hours even if i get called in at 2pm and still get double time after 4pm ..weekends and all holidays ,double time ..100% benifits ,,and my pension hourly was just a little less than minimum wage for most .... no 8 hours off between start-times ..it was all 2x untill i did..@ straight time i was getting 36.85 /hr...

huge coin ..and Chaos always equalls cash !!!!

 

[Dualie]

are unions evil. NO.

but in the end its how the union works to protect the interest of the industry and with foresight to keeping their workers employed that makes the difference.

The Teamsters seem to have forgotten this when the new CA emissions regulations came about. They were behind them 100% not giving to shats what this would do to the economy and the trucking industry of California.

where as the Operating Engineers, laborers and the A.G.C. got together to lobby against the new off road emissions regulations to help preserve the construction industry and the jobs that are associated with the industry.

unions that look out for the interests of everyone especially their members are a great thing. Short sighted unions that only lookout for how to keep their own self importance over all other things are evil.

the only other unions I have had any dealings with are the carpenters and ALOT of dealings with the Ironworkers. I will reserve my judgement on those two for a different time and place

 

[milling_drum]

The operators unions are losing power in the east, allbeit slowly, the international brotherhood has had to rescue in a few cases just to keep them running.

 

[Steve Frazier]

As discussed in another thread, there are good unions and bad, one size does not fit all. I personally have had a bad experience in the union, and am not inclined to favor having these heavy equipment forums used to promote unions.

 

[milling_drum]

100% agree on that!

 

[qball]

must be evil, cause i'm in one

 

[willie59]

As discussed in another thread, there are good unions and bad, one size does not fit all. I personally have had a bad experience in the union, and am not inclined to favor having these heavy equipment forums used to promote unions.

Steve,
I'm right there with you. I've been Union and non-Union (no opinion offered here). I prefer this forum to be about Heavy Equipment, and that's it (no disrespect to Bluwenis). After all, this is "heavyequipmentforums.com", nothing else, please.

 

[activeorpassive]

As discussed in another thread, there are good unions and bad, one size does not fit all. I personally have had a bad experience in the union, and am not inclined to favor having these heavy equipment forums used to promote unions.

While I agree with the view that Bluwenis' shameless promotion of unions would be better served being posted in the other thread...

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=7022

I can't say that I agree with the esteemed Founder's :notworthy dogma that this forum shouldn't be used to promote unions. Mr. Frazier's own bias towards unions gives the non-union element somewhat of an advantage in this forum, as he yields the ultimate power in shutting down any posts he feels inappropriate. But I will tip my hat to Mr. Frazier for allowing both sides to express their opinions while remaining somewhat neutral, even though it is evident which side he is on. He has been more than fair to date. Having said that:

Being equitable doesn't necessarily mean being fair, and the correct thing to do would be to implement a policy banning the discussion for BOTH sides - those that promote and those that condemn. I'm a member of an electrical code forum that bans discussions pertaining to union or non-union, and the forum is excellent. Discussions are limited to the forum's intent - the common passion for correct installation of electrical equipment and electrical troubleshooting. Heavy Equipment Forums is daily becoming more and more popular, and the union/non-union issue is definitely inherent to this industry. I, with my limited clairvoyance (ok, ok...educated guess), see this forum being quickly overrun with heated debates about a matter that really has no relevance in regards to this community's devoted design - The celebration and lamentation of all things equipment related.

Cat or Komatsu, union or non. They're arguments based on personal experience and environment, and the arguments are ineffective when based on emotions and not facts. I'm not stating that both sides don't have their factual merits. But I am stating that those posts are few compared to those based on knee-jerk reactions to seeing "union" or "non-union." You want to promote your union? Then make your avatar an advertisement of your union's bug. Want to rejoice in your standard of living without union representation? Then make your avatar an advertisement of the company that treats you so well. Self-employed? Then make your avatar your company logo.

I do appreciate and understand the views posted by both sides (with a few exceptions for uneducated, shoot-from-the-hip posts), and I have my own biases regarding the subject. But I'm not here to tell somebody else how to live or how to work, regardless of my bias.

But I will tell you which equipment you should definitely be operating...

 

[Reuben]

We live in a country were we are are permitted to have an opinion one way or another. Everyone is going to have a different opinion. This could be a topic that could get out of control in a blink of an eye.SO before anyone posts please consider that these posts on this thread are all based on opinion.(refering to pro/con union).

Now with that said....
I have always been a share holder of the family business and because of that I never worked for the union. From what little I know, at this time I would not utilize the union for employees. I have worked on jobs that were union and have seen production grind to a hault because some one is standing there saying " I am not a laborer,I am not a mason,I am not a carpenter,I am not an operator,etc. Thats what I saw about the union that i didnt like. The way I look at it is if I sign your check and I want you to play paddie cake before lunch time then thats whats going to happen.

NOT EVERYTHING IS FAIR.............JUST MY OPINION

 

[Turbo21835]

Now with that said....
I have always been a share holder of the family business and because of that I never worked for the union. From what little I know, at this time I would not utilize the union for employees. I have worked on jobs that were union and have seen production grind to a hault because some one is standing there saying " I am not a laborer,I am not a mason,I am not a carpenter,I am not an operator,etc. Thats what I saw about the union that i didnt like. The way I look at it is if I sign your check and I want you to play paddie cake before lunch time then thats whats going to happen.

NOT EVERYTHING IS FAIR.............JUST MY OPINION

Ill play paddy cake, but you have to pay me operators scale. I have no problem with doing what needs to be done. Ive done this before. When I worked in OR IUOE 701. I was hired as an operator, but when I started we were stripping out an office building. Some of this was skid steer work, some of this hand work, or working off of a manlift. The only point I had a problem was when the laborers were running skid steer all day and I was running a shovel. But can you really blame someone for that? Thats like telling a guy hes CEO but he is doing the CFOs job wile the CFO is doing the CEOs job

 

[liebherr1160]

I have worked on jobs that were union and have seen production grind to a hault because some one is standing there saying " I am not a laborer,I am not a mason,I am not a carpenter,I am not an operator,etc

Me to ! If asked i well assist if the crew is short handed..and i know them ...all..not just one.
I have been in that position....On a union job ..I run equipment..Period...I will not touch another Trades tools, or infringe upon another locals scope of work ...Thats bad JU JU...no worse than stealling from a blind man ..