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580SE Power Shuttle Fluid Question

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by bowen, Nov 25, 2011.

  1. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    What Info I have says to use "Case TCH Fluid" in the power shuttle. (8 quarts)
    2 questions...
    A) Can I check this cold like the oil or does the oil need to be warm and the engine running?

    B) Can I use this hydraulic fluid like I am using in the hydraulic reservoir (12 gallons I think)
    http://www.tractorsupply.com/traveller-reg-universal-tractor-trans-hydraulic-fluid-5-gal--0806391
    I also have another product that reads "Xtreme" and is slightly more expensive. I was told it was better for not foaming etc.
    (When cold this stuff seems THICKER than the product shown in the link.)

    No one close to me keeps the Case TCH fluid but I could travel 40 miles to get some if I could be educated on the benefits.
    What Tractor Supply sells is like $45 for a 5 gallon bucket and the information on the bucket seems to indicate it will replace any and all of these type fluids.

    BTW my manual also says to use the Case TCH fluid, same as the Power Shuttle.
    I need to change the Power Shuttle fluid as soon as I get a new oring, as that is all I read I need except for some kind of silicone sealant for the pan. (Clean only the screen)
    One place says to use Clear Permatex sealant, but it looks like the blue or black would be a better choice for this.
    Thanks in advance for your advice.
     
  2. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    Shuttle Photo

    Wire_Loose_Crop10-30-11 017.jpg
    Sorry, one more question. This is the shuttle housing.
    See that sensor on the line coming out of the housing?.. What IS that?:beatsme
    You can see the wire was loose and I reconnected it properly. The Oil temp gage was NOT working and I thought I had found the problem, but no luck.
    The oil temp gage still sits at zero. However my hourmeter now works which was dead before. I did replace the tach fitting to fix my RPM gauge which is not electronic.
    I have wiring diagrams that show I have an electric houmeter, but the thing is inside the RPM display, so I think it's mechanically driven, UNLESS this fitting on the shuttle has something to do with the hourmeter! :eek:
     
  3. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    ROPS_Display_480_11-7-11 011.jpg
    This is what my guages look like. 580 Super E 1985 model
     
  4. Ando

    Ando Well-Known Member

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    Hi Bowen. You can run hydraulic oil in your shuttle. I run the same 68 grade as I use in the hydraulics. To check the oil, start the engine and let it idle for a couple of minutes...then pull the dipstick and check.
    The sensor in the photo is the shuttle oil temperature sender.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
  5. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    the I suppose I will start with a voltmeter at the sensor. Anyone know what voltage range this is supposed to read?
    I really don't know the "Oil Temp: gauge is for the power shuttle fluid, but this is the only gauge I have.
    I know there is an "oil pressure" sensor & I think this works the small light. (It works altho it stay on about 5 seconds after the engine starts)
    If I have some form of voltage at the sensor I suppose I have to look for the same voltage up at the guage.
    I either have a bad sensor, wiring problem, or gauge.. The hand never moves up at all.
     
  6. c east

    c east New Member

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    I have a case 580B....Can I run the Case TCH Fluid for all Hydraulic needs....I am brand new to Backhoes and know nothing....I have to learn to use it first....Then learn to maintain it....Charlie
     
  7. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    You should try to get some form of operators or technical manual to start learning about the unit. They can be pretty expensive to work on. I am trying to do all I can myself, although my background is more in way smaller machines.
     
  8. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    Oil temp guage - is for shuttle - I've never seen one move, except when doing a stall test, for a LONG time. They were probably never matched properly from the factory. I wouldn't worry about it. If you earth the wire & gauge moves up , gauge is OK.
    Oil pressure light - is engine oil pressure.
     
  9. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    Wow.. interesting. Maybe mine is OK, because I have never overworked the shuttle so far as I know. I am about to change the fluid and the manual says to put the thing in 3rd gear, lock the parking brake and heat the oil up good..
    Cable_Loose_48011-25-11 003.jpg
    I did find THIS today:eek:. This is right behind the battery compartment underneath. Someone took a ground strap off that connects the frame to maybe the engine. I am going to fix this next. I just wonder what all this would effect? (Being unconnected.) You can see one end is just hanging in the air. Someone had replaced the negative strap from the battery which is on the other side, and they failed to get this back on.:Banghead
    It does crank, charge etc all with no problem. The oil pressure light does stay on for 5 seconds after I crank it, and I don't know if that is abnormal or not. It never comes back on.

    After all the problems I had getting the oil cooler repaired I think I got some water in the power shuttle fluid. I see some slight milky looking stuff on the dipstick. I am going to drain it Sunday or Monday.
    I blew out the oil cooler as best I could but the way the tubes are made it's almost impossible to get all the water out where they immersed the cooler to pressurize it and find the leaks.
     
  10. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    I think the 'E's' used to mount the horn on that bolt also. There was a similar braided strap from battery to chassis - has a new earth strap been fitted to it maybe? From battery to engine somewhere?
     
  11. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    Not one added that I know of, but I will look closer. Surely no harm in just reconnecting this one.
    There is another strap close to the starter on the other side of the engine; it's in place.
    Items 14 & 14A in this diagram.
    Battery_Cables_580SE.gif
     
  12. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    I have decided you must be correct. When grounded the gauge goes all the way up.
    Cold I get 6.8K Ohm resistance across the sensor, and warm I get about 1.4K across the sensor (external heat applied, engine not running)
    But just using the backhoe moving dirt around on the farm, the hand on the guage seems to be at the bottom, and not working.
    I think with my newly repaired and clean oil cooler, this may NEVER read anything. I will try the stall test this weekend.
     
  13. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    Well now I am befuddled with the fluid change.
    I heated the power shuttle fluid up an found that I have leaks up on top of the shuttle on each side. But that's not my immediate problem.

    I understood from my service manual that I was to drain the torque converter by rotating the engine until I could see the drain hole up in the flywheel housing drain plug.
    Is this correct?! Because I rotated the engine forever and NEVER found anything that could be a plug.
    I am working by myself and the only way I can rotate the engine is via the fan, crawling underneath and back up top...
    What am I doing wrong, or is the manual incorrect?
    I finally left the thing draining until tomorrow. I did get the filter all cleaned; it was not all that dirty, but the fluiid looked terrible.
    I will measure the fluid tomorrow top see how much drained out, but it looks to be maybe 5-6 quarts, vs. the 8 quarts that I am supposed to add back.
    Do I just put fluid back in and then drain/refil again later? I really wanted ALL that fluid out.

    BTW my oil temp gauge IS working, but even when the oil cooler lines are maybe 100 degrees to touch, the gauge only moves up a tad.
    This is on a 580 Super E.
     
  14. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    When draining convertor oil by myself, I set up a mirror, on the ground under the bell housing so I can see the drain plug come round while I turn the engine.
    Sometimes a torch may be required to see...... 7/16" socket req.
    It's possible the convertor may have been replaced & no plug exists???
     
  15. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    I don't know, but I did have one mechanic tell me that some do NOT have a drain plug in the torque converter.
    Is the 7/16" plug not pointing DOWN? because I can see the head of one bolt in there but this is horizontal.
    If that's the drain it would be a booger to get back it.

    I suppose I will refill the pan and maybe do it again later, less the filter cleaning.
    Most use silicone for the pan gasket, but the local Case place sold me a gasket. Case part number R29956 which does show on some other machine parts list.
    He says if the pan is cast (mine is) and not damaged to use the gasket with NO silicone.
    He has taken too many apart to find silicone up in the screen where too much was used etc. (You see that some was on mine)
    Mine is a beefy pan and I can't tell that it's warped or damaged in any way. Does anyone else use the $9 gasket?

    I may have found the leak on top. I think I had overfilled the shuttle last week. (maybe 1/2 quart)
    Then when I did the warm up the leak showed coming down both sides. I see that there is a vent/breather up on top of the shuttle.
    I wonder if the overfill and warm up cause the oil to come out the breather?

    Gland_Nut_336_11-28-11 017.jpg Shuttle_336_11-25-11 005.jpg Shuttle_Pan__336_12-4-11.jpg Fuel_Tank_Sensor_336_12-3-11 023.jpg
     
  16. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    All the borg warner convertors had the drain plug from factory & they are in the vertical position. The ones that don't have a plug were Super K's (JJG20000+) & later models. Look harder Bowen, it's easy to miss - I could be wrong, but your shuttle dosen't even look like it's been out, so I'm guessing it is still there.
    I prefer to use a gasket - if I have one at the ready, otherwise it gets the silicone treatment - as said above don't go silly with it - a small bead 2-4mm wide all that is req.

    Leak from the breather is a worry........ hopefully just because it was overfilled. Hardly seeen a shuttle NOT leak from the control valve @ cut-out solonoid.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  17. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    I have already looked at the parts and ordered a right side gasket and o-ring (items 43 & 49) but I have no idea if this will fix the leak.
    IF it is the control valve, does all the o-rings inside have to be replaced? ANd does the shuttle have to come out?
    I do know oil was coming down both sides of the shuttle.

    Mine will start in gear so I have to find out why. I may need a new neutral start switch. It's so mucked up I can't even see the parts.

    I am nursing a torn rotator cuff in my shoulder and turning the engine is a chore for me.
    Tell me this. If I turn the fan 1 revolution, does it turn the torque converter 1 revolution?

    I will look once again for that plug.
    Thanks.

    I am taking one step forward and two steps back it seems.
     
  18. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    Flywheel_Housing_480_7-7-11 025.jpg

    And I hope that IS the hole I am supposed to be shining a light up into... just behind the oil pan.
    BTW this plus has been missing forever. I have a new one but I have to clean the threads up before it will screw in.
    It's a 3/4 NPT thread
     
  19. Ando

    Ando Well-Known Member

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    I hear ya Bowen, I had some trouble finding my drain plug as well. After turning the engine over about 20 times, I did this....

    -mark the top of the crank pulley with some white chalk
    -stick your finger in the drain hole, as far as you can reach on the circumference of the TC - my TC had a 1/8" BSP plug for the drain. It will be sticking out about 1/4"or so.
    -rotate engine a small amount, using the chalk mark as your guide (the crank pulley will be 1:1 with the TC)

    It's still a pain to do it like this but at least you will only be turning the engine over once

    You will be able to remove the cut-out solenoid without removing the shuttle. (Alrman may be able to advise on the o-ring question)
    The machine has a neutral start sensor on the opposite side (from the c/o solenoid) check whether the wire has come off.
     
  20. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    To reseal the control valve - it must be removed.
    1) Unscrew solonoid & remove snap ring
    2) Oil filler pipe & fitting RHS + PUT RAG IN HOLE to prevent ball bearing falling into shuttle.
    3) triangle shaped plate with 3 bolts RHS

    There is external oring, some have 2. Also internal seal at plunger - remove roll pin to pull plunger. Bore of valve may need a hone if rusty - use a brake cyl hone

    There is a engine turning tool you can purchase from Case or Snap On # YA9565A - they are slow, but makes it real easy
     

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