Yellow Iron Fever!!

[ForsytheBros.]

I'm doing some tread kicking in looking to the future regarding the purchase of a larger sized excavator.

We're a small civil engineering/construction company doing mostly water and wastewater work. Current equipment fleet is limited to full sized backhoes and mini-excavator.

In my mind's eye, i'm leaning toward a future purchase (someday if the $$ can ever be saved up!!) of something in the Cat 320 class.

The following questions immediately come to mind:

1. Thoughts and experiences by owners or operators of the cat 320?
2. Preferences of other makes on similar class/size?
3. Thoughts on used machines? Expected maintenance issues on machines 2000-3000hrs? Overall expected machine lifetime?
4. Given above hours, i'm guessing i'll need to spend approx. $100K. Reasonable?
5. Thoughts on max bucket width for such a machine?

Primary duty will be pipe work excavation to depths in softer material up to 20' deep. Service for primary makes (cat, komatsu,case, kobelco, etc.) is readily available in my area.

thanks!

 

[CM1995]

:my2c For what it is worth.

I'm doing some tread kicking in looking to the future regarding the purchase of a larger sized excavator.

We're a small civil engineering/construction company doing mostly water and wastewater work. Current equipment fleet is limited to full sized backhoes and mini-excavator.

In my mind's eye, i'm leaning toward a future purchase (someday if the $$ can ever be saved up!!) of something in the Cat 320 class.

The following questions immediately come to mind:

1. Thoughts and experiences by owners or operators of the cat 320?
2. Preferences of other makes on similar class/size?
3. Thoughts on used machines? Expected maintenance issues on machines 2000-3000hrs? Overall expected machine lifetime?
4. Given above hours, i'm guessing i'll need to spend approx. $100K. Reasonable?
5. Thoughts on max bucket width for such a machine?

Primary duty will be pipe work excavation to depths in softer material up to 20' deep. Service for primary makes (cat, komatsu,case, kobelco, etc.) is readily available in my area.

thanks!

I have had or run a 315Cl,320Cl, 325Cl, 321ClcR and a 325Dl. The 320 is a good size hoe for the work you are describing. It has good balance and power for utility work. I have a buddy of mine that does primarily utility work and has several 320's. Using his experience he has had some issues with his 320's relating to the fuel system and hydraulics- some minor pump problems. He has 2 kobelco's and has had great service out of them. He has a new PC200 that has had electrical issues.

We put 2000+ hours on our 315 and we never turned a bolt on it and traded it in on a D6N because our needs changed. We have 800+ hours on our 325Dl and (knock on wood) we have not had any problems other than a hydraulic test port nipple leak. Our 321Clcr has had some hyraulic problems but it was due to the quick couple installed by the dealership.

I think that buying a used machine in the 2k-3k hour range would be fine - just do your inspection and analyze the oil reports. You should expect to have to replace/repair minor items - maybe batteries, alternator, hyraulic leaks, etc.

I would say $100k-$120k should be able to get you a good used machine in this size class. There are deals out there.

Judging from my experience with our 321, the max. size bucket I would put on there would be a 42"-48" bucket. The 48" is really too much but you can run it.

If a quick coupler fits your operation then see if there is a used machine that has one. There is not much price difference on the used market between machines that have one and ones that don't. But you sure pay for a new coupler.

Hope this helps- cheers.:drinkup

 

[KSSS]

If your routinely digging to 20' you may want to go up a size. You about at the limit of a 200 size machine. If you seldom go that deep you could rent or dig yourself down. However if spend time at that depth I would get more machine. Also bailing material at that depth would be more productive with a bigger machine as well.

 

[ForsytheBros.]

KSSS-
good point. I expect that 20' depth would be more the exception than the rule. I would say 10'-15' would be the more common higher range for us.

 

[dayexco]

200 sized hoes lose their productivity on excavations much more than 15' deep. you just don't have any reach. don't get hung up on cat stuff...price and try out the others, deere, hitachi, case, hyundai, kobelco....all great machines, and will save yourself a pile of money doing it.

 

[biggixxerjim]

Cat all the way. Nobody can touch them in Excavators, not even close.

Dont care what anyone says.

 

[928G Boy]

321C, fantastic machine. The company I work for got two 320Cs and one 321C and we found that the 321C can actually outperform the 320Cs in a lot of situations. It is one of the best machines I think they've purchased in many years.

 

[CM1995]

It's no secret I am a Cat guy but when it comes to hoes there are other machines out there that are just as good. Komatsu and Kobelco both make good hoes - the question is their reliability and long term operational costs.

The 321C is a great machine. I have a quick coupler and a hydraulic thumb combined with the zero swing and it is a very good clearing grubbing machine. I have been taking first shift on it they last few days cutting out basements for town homes and it is a very nice machine to run. Zero swing machines are an excellent choice for in town utility work - you can work in one lane of traffic and spin around.

 

[dayexco]

Cat all the way. Nobody can touch them in Excavators, not even close.

Dont care what anyone says.

having ran everything but a halla, o&k, liebherr, and a terex, i can say personally.........that cat has nothing over on the rest, in fact on the 3 day "try and buys" we've performed, the 320 cat IMO was a real pooch along side a 210 kobelco, or 200 hitachi. cat does have it over on it's competition on initial higher purchase price. if you take the cost of your money "difference in purchase price" over a 10k hr operating life, dif in repairs, dif in resale value...we've found out that cat isn't in the picture for us dollar wise.

 

[CM1995]

having ran everything but a halla, o&k, liebherr, and a terex, i can say personally.........that cat has nothing over on the rest, in fact on the 3 day "try and buys" we've performed, the 320 cat IMO was a real pooch along side a 210 kobelco, or 200 hitachi. cat does have it over on it's competition on initial higher purchase price. if you take the cost of your money "difference in purchase price" over a 10k hr operating life, dif in repairs, dif in resale value...we've found out that cat isn't in the picture for us dollar wise.

I can totally see the life cycle vs purchase price comparison. I will probably still buy cat hoes because my fleet is mostly cat and the dealership really takes care of me in regards to warranty issues. I have a real good relationship with them and there is value in a dealership backing you up. Just my .02

 

[dayexco]

cat does have an excellent track record locally as far as customer service, parts availability, etc. is concerned. so do our local hyundai ,deere, kobelco, hitachi dealers. downtime is definitely a cost avoided if at all possible. we just haven't had that problem with the other machines we have owned. that apparently just isn't the case in other parts of the US.

 

[tylermckee]

go hyundai

 

[rino1494]

I am a Cat guy all the way, but we have a 200 Kobelco that is a beast. I installed 8" sewer mains 19' deep with it in hardpan and it had no problem digging. I had to bench myself down lower to be able to dig and drag the box.

 

[CM1995]

go hyundai

Only if you have great mechanical skills.

 

[farm_boy]

Cat all the way. Nobody can touch them in Excavators, not even close.

Dont care what anyone says.

Only if like overpaying for a sub-par performing machine. You could get the matching belt buckle, boots and hat though. You would be the best fashion coordinated operator on the job!!ointhead

I can understand if you have a fleet of Cat equipment and get top notch service from the dealer. I have talked with a ton of operators and fleet managers and found that not all Cat dealers give the type of service that is worth paying an extra 10-20% more for a machine. I guess my point here is this.....don't be fooled that Cat always has the end all - be all solutions for your equipment needs. There are a lot of other makers of excavators out there that perform better and can be bought at a much better price. To go along with that point there are other dealers out there that will bend over backwards to get your business and won't give you the "take it or leave it" attitude that Cat dealers have been known for.

Just :my2c

 

[biggixxerjim]

I can totally see the life cycle vs purchase price comparison. I will probably still buy cat hoes because my fleet is mostly cat and the dealership really takes care of me in regards to warranty issues. I have a real good relationship with them and there is value in a dealership backing you up. Just my .02

This is true; if you are the type to buy equipment, use it for 2-3k hours and turn around and sell it, then going with a cheaper machine maybe the way to go because longevity isn't really a prime selling point any more. By the time things start to break down, it's alredy long gone.

But to a contractor who is interested in getting maximum life out of a machine, I think cat is the way to go.

 

[dayexco]

we run excavators 8-10k hrs...we have had zero problems with the "other iron".....other than normal maintenance, wear and tear....when you weigh in the huge dif in initial purchase price, the cost of that money difference, up front, the cost of that difference in money during the course of your loan if you finance....as i said, we've had no major breakdowns with the "other iron"....at 8-10k hrs., cat equipment just doesn't pencil out. for our operation anyway

 

[tylermckee]

Only if you have great mechanical skills.

We havnt had to touch anything on ours except fluid and filter changes :beatsme we are pretty tough on equipment too, a lot of rock around here.

 

[traxs]

Cat all the way. Nobody can touch them in Excavators, not even close.

Dont care what anyone says.

ok, ok even if you don't care, I have to say... Yes cat all the way for alot of machines. especially dozers. I run a 330CL and I love it.:notworthy But Hitachi(or deere now) would be the only other thing I would consider. I would say nobody can touch them with dozers. I worked on a project with a 5130...from the mechanics, a piece of ****. Notice that they dont make it anymore.

 

[Deere John]

I think Dayexco looks at this from a business point of view. He's right -that is the only way to do it, otherwise, your costs may overwhelm you and your nice hoe won't quite look so nice as it's on its way to the auction. With any equipment purchase, I too look at the big picture.

Features for my application,
Reliability and with that,
Parts availability and dealer support
financing and warrantee, and probably most importantly,
operating cost - fuel, oil, filter costs, use of standardized parts,

Probably the last thing I look at is resale value. I have a hard time to figure out why anyone would want to pay (and finance!) money up front to only be recovered in part at resale time. To further the point, a machine that uses 10% less fuel over its lifetime to do the same work is worth way more to the bottom line than a machine that gets 10-15% more resale value 5 years down the road.

I work in forestry. I have the same discussion about specing logging tractors. I prefer an 450 hp engine and Allison automatic. Most others prefer 550-600 hp engines, and 18 speeds. They say you gotta buy big so you can sell it at the end. I say, buy smart, enjoy the fuel savings, repair savings and operator training savings that the 450/Allison provides, and sell the truck for 20% less in 5 years - you would still be money ahead.

I'm in this sport to make as much money as I can, so all spending gets analyzed like this.
John