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Winter Operations

Archie Dunbar

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Gray, Maine
My 580B ran great all summer. As it started to get cold, not even going below freezing at night, I started to experience the hesitation to move before warmup. Also started to have battery problems. Battery at least siz years old and alternator hasn't worked in a long time, never since I've had it, six months. Now that it is going down to 15ish at night, the battery packed it in and even a new one wouldn't turn it over. Ran the block heater all night, jumped the negative to ground and it would give a grown. But the cheap jumpers started to smoke. So I used both jumper wires to jump negative to ground and it started right up.

Is it any problem except for the electric bill to run the block heater all night?

Today while outside air temp was 20's, the exhaust manifold pre-start was cold though slightly warmer than the rest of the machine. Side of the Block was slightly warm and the outside of the block heater was very warm though I think I could have kept holding it without getting burned. Does that seem about right?

Should I use a fuel additive?

I guess I should have already switched to 20 weight oil?

When the motor is stiff from cold, is the current draw on the battery higher? How does it know. I would have thought that the draw would always be the same but that it would just start up faster when not cold.

I did figure out that my negative ground cable needs replaced or connections cleaned or something. I had checked the resistance through it and it seemed small bit I guess with a cable that big it should have been zero.

Probably should put this in a different thread but I did buy a rebuild 10si from O'Reilly's for $33. May have been a bad idea. First, I knew I would need to change the pulley. The armature of the new alternator does not have a place in the end for an allen wrench. Just one of those star drives and a really pretty small one at that. Then once the pully was on it looks like the armature has visible runout. Don't think it is a bent pulley. I probably could just use the old armature from the original alternator. I do have the kit to convert to one wire bit wanted to see how it ran on the old set up first. Old set up is Big wire to ammeter and so on, little wire jumpered 1 to 2 and then straight to the battery switch. I know there is supposed to be a resistor but there are also people who claim that it is not necessary.
 

Junkyard

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
3,647
Location
Claremore, OK
Occupation
Field Mechanic
Current draw is higher because it's harder for the starter to turn the engine over. Thick oil in motor, trans, torque converter etc.

Fix the ground cable, make sure positive is good as well. If in doubt replace them. Assuming battery is correct size and CCA then I'd begin to suspect the starter. Block heater shouldn't need to run all night at those temps. Honestly it shouldn't need one to start at those temps but it does make it easier. A couple hours prior to startup is all we usually run them unless it's stupid cold like -20F.

Make sure fuel is good and clean, filters are fresh, no water in fuel etc.
 

Hobbytime

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2016
Messages
709
Location
usa
alternator hasnt worked in a long time, then what do you do ? charge the battery with a charger everyday? put a new quality alternator on, new battery cables and a properly sized battery, as said above block heater gets plugged in a few hours before use, if still hard to crank after that starter could be on the way out...
 

xgiovannix12

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
474
Location
New York
Occupation
Operator/Mechanic/Truck driver
great advise on above posts. My case normally starts good till it gets to the lower teens then I would plug it in for a couple hours . I normally run power service in my fuel in all my diesels in the winter
 

Archie Dunbar

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Gray, Maine
alternator hasnt worked in a long time, then what do you do ? charge the battery with a charger everyday? put a new quality alternator on, new battery cables and a properly sized battery, as said above block heater gets plugged in a few hours before use, if still hard to crank after that starter could be on the way out...
The battery started it for six months with only two charging periods. Perhaps the alternator did a little but I never saw more than 12.5 volts at any rpm.
 

Delmer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,904
Location
WI
That didn't help your battery any. Get the new alternator working and a new battery, and the cables fixed. Nothing wrong with a cheap alternator, it will work or not. All it has to do is replace the power used for starting, not very demanding for an alternator.

You don't need winter grade oil if it's plugged in when cold. An hour or two at most will get it as warm as it will get.
 

franklin2

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Messages
309
Location
Virginia
Putting both jumper cables across the negative to get it to crank is a sure sign the negative battery cable has a problem.

I would not convert to the one wire setup for the alternator. The one wire setups have their own set of problems. The old setup with the switch makes sure it definitely starts charging. I am not sure why you have a switch, it can hook to the ignition switch(if you have one). If you want some indication that it is really charging, go to the store and get a small 12v light/socket that is plastic with two wires. Do not get one that is metal or one with one wire. Wire one side of the bulb to the switched hot, wire the other side of the bulb to the wire going to terminal #1. When the switch is first turned on, the light will glow. When the engine is started and the alternator starts turning and charging, the light will go out. If you throw a belt or the alternator fails to charge while the engine is running, the light will come on.
 

Archie Dunbar

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Gray, Maine
Franklin2, it has a battery switch because the previous owner said that he was draining the battery while machine not in use. He could not find the problem so he isolated the battery. I do the same on my boat because I might leave the nav lights on or a kid might come along and turn on a bilge pump or turn the ignition key.
 

xgiovannix12

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
474
Location
New York
Occupation
Operator/Mechanic/Truck driver
most likely the starter or the alternator is draining the battery
 

old-iron-habit

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
4,233
Location
Moose Lake, MN
Occupation
Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
If your "cheap" starter groans and starts to smoke, put a multimenter on it and see what its drawing for amps when you hit the switch. Because its new don't mean its any good. I also agree that you have ground cable problems. Good clean ends, big enough cable, and tight connections have a major impact. Loose or dirty cables often have a impact on charging also.
 

Tinkerer

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
9,399
Location
The shore of the illinois river USA
Check for a glazed and / or a loose fan belt. Unless your tachometer requires an alternator connection a properly set-up one wire alternator is an easy cheap conversion to do. Done properly there are no problems with them.
 

Archie Dunbar

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Gray, Maine
Cleaned the cable at both ends and put it all back together with new battery and the cheap alternator. Started right up and charging at 14 volts. Ammeter still works. Will see about moving the excited wire to the ignition switch, right now direct to the battery.
 

Archie Dunbar

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Gray, Maine
On another subject. Case 580B, 17.5-24 tires. Looks to be about 3/4 inch clearance at the stabilizer mount bracket. Will chains fit? Problem now is mud but soon will be snow/ice. Just discovered that there are many choices.
 

Billrog

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
729
Location
Armstrong, British Columbia
Occupation
band mill , backhoe and dump truck
I think they will here's a 580 B i had with chains on couldn't move without them. I ran a cross link every other link on the rail not every 4th.
1991 001.jpg
 

xgiovannix12

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
474
Location
New York
Occupation
Operator/Mechanic/Truck driver
5E77E643-46F5-4DBE-90E7-77C8063A2AD2.jpeg im running chains on my C with no issues I think it should be fine
 
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