Who has fresh DEF?

[emmett518]

When the Deere mechanic came out to change the front seal on the 310L backhoe axle, he told me that Deere had worked out most of the bugs by the L series, and that I bought a pretty reliable unit if I did the fluid and filter changes regularly.

He warned me though that the biggest PITA was the DEF system.

He told me to not mess with it, add to the tank, or touch it, until it was nearly empty. Then flush out the tank until it was clean, change the filters and add fresh, DEF from a new, unopened container. If I had extra left over, I should dump it.

Where is the best place to buy DEF that is fresh? Walmart? The Deere dealer? DUFFMAN?

Thanks.

 

[ianjoub]

Blue DEF is available at walmart, home depot, lowes, virtually every convenience store, all the auto parts stores. They are sealed containers.

 

[heymccall]

I've been doing this since DEF was introduced (2010 or so).

All store bought jugs are sealed, and dated...but, more importantly, DEF concentration can be easily measured with a inexpensive refractometer. I've yet to find the need to drain any of our machine or truck DEF tanks for dilution. If in doubt, measure it.

 

[Delmer]

Def is urea and water, neither gets stale. But I'd do exactly as he says. Add a full clean container, and keep the filler meticulously clean.

 

[Coaldust]

We were given best practices by the majors about how to store it, expiration dates, storage temperature, inventory control and so forth. Two year max shelf life, keep it out of the sun, buy packaged products in UV resistance containers.

Supposedly, urea “degrades”? I measure the bulk DEF with my trusty refractometer and the SG never changes. But, I’m in a cool clime. I could see the SG changing in a hot climate with a vented bulk tank, as the water evaporates.


But, what happens to DEF in a sealed container? How does it “ go bad”? The reps can’t tell me. They just recite the dribble they were given during the last PowerPoint session.

Trust the science, I suppose? Just imagine if there was a hand-held device, that contained a database of information?

 

[Coaldust]

I have a big customer that manufactures DEF. I should go chat up their engineer and ask him. It’s a commodity that is being constantly made and consumed. Not once has long term storage concerns been an issue. Why store DEF beyond the two-year recommendation?

I got a 1/2 drum of off-spec DEF one time and fertilized the patch of sod in front of my single wide with it. Holy cow! Def makes the grass grow, I tell you what!

 

[ianjoub]

My p/u has a 10/100 emissions warranty. I used to use the Blue DEF, now I fill up in truck stops with the pump version when I can. It is 1/2 the price and I am under warranty.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Maybe the "sealed container" warnings came about when all the systems were complete junk, and they were looking for someone to blame.

 

[heymccall]

No, it came about from ignorance, err, lack of training, on the technician side of all the dealers. 9 times out of 10 the fluid is blamed when it's actually a skewed sensor or partially plugged doser.

 

[JD955SC]

Def is urea and water, neither gets stale. But I'd do exactly as he says. Add a full clean container, and keep the filler meticulously clean.

DEF has a shelf life. Improper storage such as out in the sun cuts the life down to nothing.

In a “book perfect” environment of the “cool, dry, covered” type warehouse it has up to a two year shelf life.

Our customers that use their machines, buy fresh DEF, and store it properly never have issues with DEF concentration. The guys that plop a IBC tote of it in the sun and take a year to use it have issues but they also tend to exacerbate their issues by doing dumb stuff like using an old bucket with a nice oil slick in it to transfer DEF to the machines.

The machine tank is made of black plastic to take the sun out of the equation but you should ideally be running the machine regularly.

You also do not want to idle your machine frequently, as such tends to happen with backhoes. Causes issues with the DEF injector and excessive soot loading.

 

[Coaldust]

How does a sealed container, away from the sun, go bad? Genuinely curious.

 

[CM1995]

He told me to not mess with it, add to the tank, or touch it, until it was nearly empty. Then flush out the tank until it was clean, change the filters and add fresh, DEF from a new, unopened container. If I had extra left over, I should dump it.

We are the opposite as we try and keep our DEF tanks full on our trucks and equipment. With a full tank I think the DEF has a less chance of crystalizing in the tank if it's full - no scientific basis on that just what we do.

We buy and always use new 2.5 gal totes from our fuel supplier and either use the entire jug or pour out the remaining. I could care less the cost of .5 gal of DEF compared to a repair bill and downtime on a machine.

So far (knocks on wood) this procedure has worked very well for us with little to no downtime due to DEF systems except for a 325FL that had sensor, injector and EGR problems. That said 325FL is now someone else's do deal with.

Just my $.035 adjusted for massive inflation, YMMV.

 

[grandpa]

Well we never fill our DEF tanks full in the winter time. Full tanks will freeze solid and break.

 

[DMiller]

DEF is water based as well an unstable solution, IE Urea with eventually precipitate out as water volume degrades by evaporation or extremes of temperatures.
I agree the biggest issue is not using the tank on the machine to near bone dry, HOWEVER that presents other concerns as to precipitant adhering to surfaces of sensors and tank walls. The consistent heating of the tanks will eventually evaporate the water leaving a more concentrated small contents volume. So how is one to ‘Rinse The Tank’ on a Road Tractor that is design to carry 10-20 gallons of this crap? Nonsensical in application. Either the industry needs a system to do that or provide equipment to do that or under a warranty expense perform that as the industry manufacturers accepted the production of non serviceable or drainable tanks.

 

[CM1995]

Well we never fill our DEF tanks full in the winter time. Full tanks will freeze solid and break.

LOL we don't have to worry about that.

 

[1693TA]

I took the implement dealer's service truck in late last summer and had the DEF deleted it was so much trouble. 2015 Chevy 3500 series and it's always had OEM DEF since new from sealed 2.5 gallon jugs. They get a pallet of the stuff monthly so no age on it for sure. Back to the dealership twice for DEF issues under warranty and once that was done, the next problem got the system eliminated. Don't know the issues this third time but dosing pump, nozzle are familiar with past repairs.

Cousin I help out with harvest has a 2012 F-450 and the DEF system was giving him fits but he didn't wait for the warranty to make repairs, we installed a tuner and took care of it right off. Set the power up a bit at the same time but nothing radical and that's been over 100K trouble free miles ago.

MOD EDIT - Let's not list manufacturers names. Thanks

No worries, didn't think about, thanks,

 

[DMiller]

Just out as to "Soot" reduction numbers, incalculably insane. 9 NANO Grams per cu meter, natural dust, pollen and other allergens is measured in MICRO grams/cu meter, 1000 times Larger. All that is currently happening is attempts to eliminate/eradicate IC engines entirely by rules.

 

[Birken Vogt]

MOD EDIT - Let's not list manufacturers names. Thanks

Not list mfrs names of what, I thought that was what we did around here?

 

[terex herder]

People have gone to jail for deletes. Don't need to give out a list.

 

[DMiller]

China keeps cutting production on DOC systems, may be all existing units deleted just to stay aliveZ