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which big mtl to buy?

Discussion in 'Compact Track/Multi Terrain Loaders' started by aaron762, Dec 30, 2014.

  1. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    If the Cat wouldn't have been $15,000 more than the Bobcat, we probably might have went with the 299. That was about double what we MIGHT have been willing to consider an acceptable premium for a piece of yellow iron. By the way, in case anyone cares, we sat up a 16,500 gallon bulk tank this last weekend. 23' high, 11' diameter. Had somewhere around 400 gallons of fuel left in it. Was able to stand it up with the 210, but could not pick it straight up to swing into place. Ended up getting under it on one side with 621 with forks, other side T770 with forks. The Bobcat didn't even know it was lifting anything. Handled its half no problem. We're not sure what tank weighs, but with 3000 lbs of fuel, and the 210 not enough, we are thinking around 13-15k? It's an ODAY tank, single wall.
     
  2. pafarmer

    pafarmer Senior Member

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    When you show up with a shiny new CAT at the job site people know your dead serious abut what you do .hard to argue the looks and reputation built around the CAT brand and what they bring to the table..In my line of work the customers almost demand CAT iron on their job sites....Funny how people equate success with certain things regardless of facts or figures.
     
  3. apetad

    apetad Senior Member

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    It's a VERY good thing to have customers who don't mind paying more, VERY nice not having to submit a competitive bid!!!
     
  4. Digdeep

    Digdeep Senior Member

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    Of course there's more to Cat's higher price premium beyond just the sticker.

    All dealers are different, but Cat dealers typically have been in their territory as stable and steady presences for far longer than most of their local competitors. Cat's parts logistics are almost unmatched, it's hard for many dealers (not all) to compete with their service capabilities (in house oil lab, hyd rebuild shops, service trucks on the road, etc.), parts in stock, loaner programs, etc. Also, Cat machines in general (not all models) have stronger resale value than most other OEMs.

    Look around you, it's not common to see the NH, Case, Takeuchi, Kubota, Terex, Volvo, Gehl, Mustang or JCB dealer that has changed from dealer to dealer over the course of 20 years or less. Most Cat dealers have been in business longer than their current owners have been alive as they usually have succession plans from founder to son and to the next son, etc. Heck, even some OEMs have been bought and sold multiple times and new ownership changes cultures, priorities, focus, etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  5. apetad

    apetad Senior Member

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    Yes Sir, However a BIG part of the high prices is to pay for how screwed up the Company is in the first place. Customers gotta pay at least an extra $580 Million just to cover THIS SCREWUP (And the cover up lawsuit costs from stockholders are yet to come)..."The Bigger They Are..." :http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/23/us-caterpillar-china-special-report-idUSBREA0M03720140123
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  6. Digdeep

    Digdeep Senior Member

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  7. apetad

    apetad Senior Member

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    We're (Cat Customers which I are 1) still paying for this, that's my point.
     
  8. Digdeep

    Digdeep Senior Member

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    Customers of all brands pay somehow for the purchases the machinery OEM makes. Cat products had a premium over most machines before that Chinese purchase. No doubt someone's head rolled for that blunder though.
     
  9. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    Any customer that is going to demand or even prefer a certain brand for you to use to do a job frankly has their head up their a$$. It should make no difference whatsoever what brand machine I use to do my job. 50 years ago, Caterpillar was looking down from the top of every mountain. 25 years ago, that mountain was not so high. 10 years ago, there were others looking over their shoulder. Today, I don't believe there is much difference at all besides some subtle ergonomics on most machines. Are some better or the best? Maybe, but the premium is no longer worth the quality like it once was. JMHO.
     
  10. pafarmer

    pafarmer Senior Member

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    Amen Brother.....but It's never a bad idea either to give the people what they want...
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
  11. pafarmer

    pafarmer Senior Member

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    It's better than you can ever imagine !
     
  12. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    Oh, I give them what they want when I comes to the finished product. The subject does come up once in a while. "Why do you run Case hoes?" or "how come you don't run a quad trac on the front of your scraper." I just tell them that I've never been disappointed in a Case hoe in 25 yrs, I don't believe the premium is justified, and I don't trust the trannies in a Quad. Most guys, that's enough reasoning for them. Others, little more q/a and move on. I'm not sure how I would respond if somebody said I can't do the job because I don't have a Cat hoe. :confused:
     
  13. pafarmer

    pafarmer Senior Member

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    I'm sure you do, never a question at all from me...I Own a CASE 580 myself and love it....I've had since new and wouldn't trade it any other brand or for any other reason......great machines....I also have a old CASE farm tractor that has provided me with decades of basically trouble free service...
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
  14. KSSS

    KSSS Senior Member

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    I have not seen that level of brand loyalty here, and certainly not by customers. I have only had one developer question running CASE over CAT, only because he used to have his own equipment and it was CAT. CAT, CASE and Deere all have there fans here but Ag is still King and the battle between red and green is way stronger than the battle over different shades of yellow iron. I personally would not allow a customer to decide what I buy, I buy what I buy based on my own criteria, I don't spec their building materials and would expect the same respect. As long as things get done in the manner that they want them done, you honestly could do it with a shovel.
     
  15. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    There are people around here that are that selective of what machinery they use, but thankfully they don't pressure me. I will use what I think is best, and anyone that is going to try and tell me another machine is going to dig a better hole than mine purely based on brand is out of touch with reality and maybe needs some time in a padded room. Faster, that is debatable. Now the reliabilty and longevity conversations are different discussions entirely, but those are also business decisions which should be of no concern.
     
  16. Plebeian

    Plebeian Senior Member

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    As I see it jobs such as pad levelling are becoming more specialised with the laser guided levels, you could set up a machine to do this job alone if there are enough pads to do or you can travel widely enough to become a pad specialist.
    I would guess you know which dealerships are in your area and the support they provide. The new model Terex PT100 would do as a pad leveller.
    The scrub mulching is more suited to the forestry spec machines with the high flow hydraulics. You can use track grips on the smooth tracks but it will not be a steel track Cat 299XHP.
    Ideally you might have a 5/7/8 tonne excavator or a Mecalac http://www.mecalac.com/en/machine/10mcr.html (100hp/ 10 tonne/ loader/ excavator) to work in combination with the skid steer to do the foundations/ drainage as well as the pad work as well as dig tree stumps out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
  17. apetad

    apetad Senior Member

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  18. apetad

    apetad Senior Member

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  19. Digdeep

    Digdeep Senior Member

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    Not really sure I understand the axe you're grinding, but Cat machines have always cost more than other products going way back to when I was selling Bobcats. I remember when they introduced their compact products and they cost more then too.

    Can't speak for the Aussie market, but Cat's pricing must not be too far out of whack since they have made large gains in market share. Here are words directly from a guy I've known for well over a decade that works for Bobcat, "Cat and Kubota were the big compact equipment market share movers in 2014. Everyone else lost share including us".
     
  20. pafarmer

    pafarmer Senior Member

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    I'm with you on this my friend. CAT has been more money since I can remember. They make a great machine and people don't mind paying for the name so it seems based on 2014 year end results when compared to the others on regarding market share of compact equipment. Grind away, I'm going to run my brand New CAT 299XHP....good day to all....
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015