What's The Chances?

[HEO Girl]

Hope this is in the right spot

What's the chances of a trainee operator (that has gotten a certificate to operate equipment after 1 year of schooling) getting a job out there running equipment?

I here most companies make you do ground work first then let you run their equipment rarely. Well then what the heck was the point of learning to operate equipment if you are going to be doing ground work? I get the whole thing where a newbie wont be able to do a big complicated job because they don't know much but starting them out on small jobs would be feesable yes?

Most companies say "We don't slip any trainees in, you always get a well seasoned professional operating engineer." But what happens when you run out of well seasoned professional's? I mean you'd think a company would take a newbie under their wing. If a company were to do this I would think that the trainee would be more loyal to the company. Also the company would be able to mold this new operator to their standards and they would be less stubborn about doing things the companies way.

I guess I understand the whole: Training newbies is time consuming. We want some one we know can do the job right.

But what about us youngin's who are really passionate about operating?

Everyone's gotta start somewhere but if you can't start to begin with then you'll never learn

 

[special tool]

I think you are missing the point.
One of the most important reasons that we do things this way is to ensure that rookies are ABLE, through experience, to see things through the perspective of the ground laborer.

I hope, in the near future, that architects will be required to undergo more field training...so that they don't spec "18" CMU", for instance.

 

[HEO Girl]

That makes sense to me. But I've herd of more times then not people getting stuck being a ground laborer and not being able to move up to operate equipment. It's a great idea to have them start as ground to be able to see what goes on down there.

I just would hate to be stuck as a ground laborer is all. I mean after a couple years of being in the company assuming I do a good job I would like to move up to a seat position

 

[willie59]

Hope this is in the right spot

What's the chances of a trainee operator (that has gotten a certificate to operate equipment after 1 year of schooling) getting a job out there running equipment?

I here most companies make you do ground work first then let you run their equipment rarely. Well then what the heck was the point of learning to operate equipment if you are going to be doing ground work? I get the whole thing where a newbie wont be able to do a big complicated job because they don't know much but starting them out on small jobs would be feesable yes?

Most companies say "We don't slip any trainees in, you always get a well seasoned professional operating engineer." But what happens when you run out of well seasoned professional's? I mean you'd think a company would take a newbie under their wing. If a company were to do this I would think that the trainee would be more loyal to the company. Also the company would be able to mold this new operator to their standards and they would be less stubborn about doing things the companies way.

I guess I understand the whole: Training newbies is time consuming. We want some one we know can do the job right.

But what about us youngin's who are really passionate about operating?

Everyone's gotta start somewhere but if you can't start to begin with then you'll never learn

Patience, grasshopper. Your getting your cart way before your horse when you contemplate "when I finally get there, I won't get to operate!" Your already doing more than most young folks, training for a craft. Take your time, be patient, learn everything you can whenever you can. When an opportunity arises, no matter how large or small, take it. For example, you could be on a job doing the boring task of flagperson, but your watching how things are done. Your seeing the methods and the process, ever learning. Then one Monday morning, the person who runs the vibratory roller doesn't show up. You jump in and tell the boss "I'm trained to run one". Opportunities come to those who show up for work, not those who don't. You just have to do two things to work for anyone and climb the ladder; 1) show up on time everyday, and 2) do what they tell you to do. You just focus on learning, your chance will come.

 

[insleyboy]

HEO Girl, you seem to be on the right path. Problem might be the baggage...aka "most people say this..." I had same attitude when I was young. What I learned was to make yourself very good at what you do without drawing attention to yourself. I know nowdays that is the oppisite in life but if you can do things in your trade without fanfare, you WILL get noticed!

 

[Turbo21835]

A few things to help you out along the road. I started a lot like you. I went to an HEO school. I had a few things going for me though, the school was based out of an excavation companies HQ, the economy was rolling coals, and I grew up around a farm. I can help with the farm part, but it provides a great background, attitude, and teaches you to feel things by the seat of your pants so to speak.

Now, having gone to a school located at an excavation company, most of the supers from that company had a heads up as to who was worth anything. At a few points during the week there would be different company trucks out there, most of the guys thought it was just company guys goofing off, or talking to instructors whom they used to work with. In all reality, they were checking out the talent. Just remember, you never know who is watching, they may be your big break.

Now out into the field we go. I was hired as an operator/laborer, with an emphases on labor. My job was grade checker, and I also ran compaction equipment, and scraper. While on the ground, take the time to watch, learn what the operators are doing. Figure out what they are doing, and figure out why they are doing it that way. Also think about other ways to accomplish the same task. Show up early every day. Be the last to go home. Go the extra mile, pay attention to the little details. Talk to the boss, inform them that you would be willing to stay an extra half hour or hour in the evenings and grease/fuel the machines. This gives them a full day of production, with a low equipment maintenance cost. Having a full crew standing around fueling and greasing for a half hour is fairly costly.

Talk with the operators, let them know you are interested in running equipment. Maybe you eat a sandwich and run a machine during lunch. Its a good way to learn to do the job, yet not mess anything up. There were many days I sat in an excavator at lunch, I made the next cut and practiced pulling a box. I would only cut enough for the next joint of pipe, and left enough to grade the bottom. Many days I ate lunch in an excavator loading trucks while an operator had lunch. When I was working on the finish crew, my dozer man would hop off and tell me to "do something, i gotta go ****." When he got back he would let me know what I did wrong, and what I did right. This should help out some, and well let the supervisors know what you want in the near future.

 

[willie59]

A few things to help you out along the road. I started a lot like you. I went to an HEO school. I had a few things going for me though, the school was based out of an excavation companies HQ, the economy was rolling coals, and I grew up around a farm. I can help with the farm part, but it provides a great background, attitude, and teaches you to feel things by the seat of your pants so to speak.

Now, having gone to a school located at an excavation company, most of the supers from that company had a heads up as to who was worth anything. At a few points during the week there would be different company trucks out there, most of the guys thought it was just company guys goofing off, or talking to instructors whom they used to work with. In all reality, they were checking out the talent. Just remember, you never know who is watching, they may be your big break.

Now out into the field we go. I was hired as an operator/laborer, with an emphases on labor. My job was grade checker, and I also ran compaction equipment, and scraper. While on the ground, take the time to watch, learn what the operators are doing. Figure out what they are doing, and figure out why they are doing it that way. Also think about other ways to accomplish the same task. Show up early every day. Be the last to go home. Go the extra mile, pay attention to the little details. Talk to the boss, inform them that you would be willing to stay an extra half hour or hour in the evenings and grease/fuel the machines. This gives them a full day of production, with a low equipment maintenance cost. Having a full crew standing around fueling and greasing for a half hour is fairly costly.

Talk with the operators, let them know you are interested in running equipment. Maybe you eat a sandwich and run a machine during lunch. Its a good way to learn to do the job, yet not mess anything up. There were many days I sat in an excavator at lunch, I made the next cut and practiced pulling a box. I would only cut enough for the next joint of pipe, and left enough to grade the bottom. Many days I ate lunch in an excavator loading trucks while an operator had lunch. When I was working on the finish crew, my dozer man would hop off and tell me to "do something, i gotta go ****." When he got back he would let me know what I did wrong, and what I did right. This should help out some, and well let the supervisors know what you want in the near future.

Well said Turbo. You gave a perfect illustration of what I meant when I said be patient and take advantage of opportunities when they arise. Don't be your own worst enemy and discourage yourself HEOgirl, are you learning anything from us old hands here?

 

[OCR]

but if you can't start to begin with

Wow... I think I read something along those lines in one of my quantum mechanics physics books.

Has something to do with the Heisenberg indeterminacy principle, or more properly known as, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.

You also stated a nice paradox about cause and effect... What Caused the First Cause?... ...

I'm kinda funning you, HEO Girl... but it's the old dilemma of, how can you gain experience if you can't operate something... to gain experience.


Also, some times a company will take the time and effort to train a person.
Then, after all the training, they skip off to a higher paying job.

I don't think that happens too often, but I have read about it.
They'd probably get a reputation for doing that, and then nobody would hire them.

Also, special tool makes a good point too.

You make a good point with this statement... and having a certificate should help... I would think any way.

If a company were to do this I would think that the trainee would be more loyal to the company. Also the company would be able to mold this new operator to their standards and they would be less stubborn about doing things the companies way.

It's just kinda difficult to "break in" sometimes...

Good luck though,

BTW... Those two concepts I talked about at the beginning are very real...
I put them in bold, so you can read about them in Wikipedia if you've never heard of them... LOL

Look up Schrödinger's cat too...


OCR...

 

[Buckethead]

You're willing to learn, and you seem like you have no fear of machines, those are the important things.

 

[oriden]

if your a good worker you should have problems moving up! i was an order picker and in no time i had more forklift licences then you could shake a stick at, hoping now for the same thing after HEO school. good luck to you!

 

[CascadeScaper]

It's tough times right now as it is, getting in the seat as a rookie is hard when dollars are on the line more than ever before. Foremen are looking for someone in the seat with the lowest possibility of making costly mistakes. However, starting out as a laborer isn't all bad. I've done my share of it, not as much as I probably could have, but I'm still a union apprentice and we get our share of pine handle time. I don't have a problem with it, job is a job and you're actually learning a lot on the ground. I actually do a fair amount of grade checking, which is a fairly valuable skill to have. Humbles you a little bit as well, you know exactly what it feels like to be that close to the equipment. I've grade checked vertical face soil nail walls, working within arm's reach of a 40 ton hoe slinging an 8,000 pound bucket. It's a humbling experience, but now I know what it's like to be on the other end of things. Also, working around a dozer and grade checking, always watching to make sure you don't get run the hell over.

Turbo makes some good points as well. Lunch breaks are a good time to jump on stuff. One day I was running our little D37 on the last crew I was on, doing some cleanup on a bench so the 400's could get in and do some bulk cuts after the trucks left for the day. We had a D8 on site that one guy ran pretty much every day, all he did was run that dozer. He said he had to go take a leak, jumped on my dozer and took off. There I was, with about 2 hours of previous experience on an 8, feeding 2 400's loading trucks. I'm a firm believer of learning stuff better when you've more or less got a gun to your head. Turned out, he left me in it for almost 2 hours, I had me a good 'ol time and learned a little while I was at it.

 

[HEO Girl]

Well said Turbo. You gave a perfect illustration of what I meant when I said be patient and take advantage of opportunities when they arise. Don't be your own worst enemy and discourage yourself HEOgirl, are you learning anything from us old hands here?

I always learn things from you all here on hef. Don't think there hasn't been a day where I logged on and read some thread and learned something new. And I do contemplate things waaay to much ^.^ Sometimes it makes my head spin.

insleyboy - The last thing I want to do is draw attention to myself haha. I'm a little shy so I like to go unnoticed in a way.

Turbo - Thank you for sharing your story I hope that something like that plays out for me.

OCR - Quantum Physics the word frightens me! wasn't the Heisenberg a blimp that blew up? or was that the Hindenburg? Haha

What Caused the First Cause?

Haha now you are going to get me thinking about everything like that. I'll be asking What was the first cause that caused this to happen along with my 'what if' I already got goin on ^.^

Oriden - Thanks!

BucketHead - =] I'm willing to learn pretty much anything!!! Except pointless math that I am learning now -_- . . *:bash I am picturing the computer as math right now ^.^*

CascadeScaper - I am a little worried about the whole economy situation but I think it will all work out in the end some how >.< . I hope

 

[RonG]

You could always buy your own equipment,then you could get your own work.
Good luck getting any laborers to work with you though!!Get lots of insurance.Ron G

 

[wormkiller]

No such thing as pointless math in this industry. ointhead

 

[mudmaker]

I'm willing to learn pretty much anything!!! Except pointless math that I am learning now

You will find that pointless math is actually quite useful! Sometimes it just takes a teacher that can relate it to real life stuff to make it not seem so pointless.

 

[willie59]

No such thing as pointless math in this industry. ointhead

Right On! Without math, we can't build anything, machinery would sit and rust.

 

[cat 385]

heo girl,i also started out as a labor i worked hard because i knew i did not want to labor the rest of my life,soon i was moved to labor foreman which gave me time to watch the operators,see how they were moving the material,i would look trough the windows to see what was going on in the cab,i talked to the operators asked a bunch of questions and when they parked at lunch i would jump on it and get a fill for it.you may feel stupid with everyone watching but if you keep at it and you have the natural ability soon it just kind of comes to ya,so one day this guy doesn't show and they need some one to load the trucks from that day on i was in a seat,you may start out on rollers or skid steers but it will teach you grading ability.as for the math you will use it daily,to this day with 25 yrs of operating exp,i will still labor if that's what it takes to get the job done or to keep a paycheck coming home.sorry for the long post.

 

[bolt thrower]

I Don't know about ME, but here the place to go for rookies was the city, county or state maintenance dept.

 

[later814]

Don't overlook small "do everything" contractors. If there are some local owner / operator type people in your area ask if you can help in the Summer (especially in ME). I grew up in a household with an owner / operator excavation contractor and we learned to operate because when it was busy there was never enough help. I think you may find this helpful as the jobs are generally smaller and it's easier to get feedback on what is and isn't working.

A lot of posters have mentioned attitude. That is a huge part. I've been in this business for awhile and it is very hard to find younger people that "want to work." Everyone wants on the job and immediately wants the newest and nicest trackhoe. Don't be afraid to jump in a skid steer or backhoe and do clean-up tasks. Stuff like that goes a long way with foreman / supers.

Good Luck!

 

[HEO Girl]

I don't care if it looks like junk as long as it runs and doesn't blow up on me I'm all set ^.^ . Just being on one doesn't matter what I have to do even if it's small clean up jobs is amazing to me >.< . Hell if I got to do that I'd be honored. I get all excited even when I see em on the side of the road.

As for work I like to work. I don't like boring stand around jobs that don't challenge your brain though. I have 2 jobs right now just cashiering (Wicked boring). I'll be looking for a 3rd this summer probably but since I live in the sorta city haha it'll probably be another cashiering job. ^.^ What I would give to work on a farm or something. Cities = poop.