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What to do with the stumps?

DennisJonesCon.

Active Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Messages
28
Location
East TN
Occupation
All construction
I read a lot of post here and it seems that most everyone does as I do.......push the tree over and out of the way. Now, what do you do with the stump? With all that dirt, the darn thing won't burn.

Dennis:usa
 

cat320

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Messages
913
Location
Stoneham,MA
you can do a few things

1. dig and burrie it.
2. have some one haul it to a place that will accept stumps
3.Bring in rent a stump/tub grinder if you have enough of them to make mulch.

I would say if the property is big enough for us small guys we burrie them as the cost is still cheaper than paying to haul and bring some where.
 

DennisJonesCon.

Active Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Messages
28
Location
East TN
Occupation
All construction
I kinda figured that would be the most economical way to handle this. I'm clearing an area for a pond and was worried about disturbing the area that was to be flooded.

Any suggestions or tips on pond building?
 

DennisJonesCon.

Active Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Messages
28
Location
East TN
Occupation
All construction
That will be up to the replys I get and what's best for the pond and conditions. I see people putting ponds in around here (TN) and then the rain comes and there full......I figure there must be a trick....or they wouldn't hold water like they do.
 

DennisJonesCon.

Active Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Messages
28
Location
East TN
Occupation
All construction
Sounds as if I will need to remove the soil that's there. This has been a heavily wooded area and has a lot of good top soil possibilities. The total area is about 2 acres and is at the bottom of a valley with slope area on three sides. I would need to dam one side.
 

Dusty

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2003
Messages
178
Location
S.E PA
get us some pics and start building
do u have a good water source or just hopeing for rain to keep it full?
 

triaxle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2005
Messages
61
Location
Cleveland, GA
Occupation
CEO Mid-sized Grading Company
Stumped?

You did not mention if you are in a no burn, seasonal burn or never burn area.

Stumps burn quite nicely if you take care of three issues.

Let your fire get real hot. If you've been feeding it for five or six hours, it's ready for clean stumps placed the fire. If the wood is dry, two or three hours may be adequate.

Clean the dirt off the roots by lifting the stumps 18 or 20 feet in the air and dropping them on a stump still attached to the earth.

Place all stumps on top of the fire, not on the side. The top may be as much as 800 degrees hotter than the side of the fire.

If you're in a no burn situation, you have to decide if tub grinding ( expensive but you get a side benefit of mulch which can be used to stabalize the site.)or transport makes the most sense. Sometimes the counties or state will accept stump fill but often it must be managed at a landfill with a dump charge.

lastly, and I am not trying to annoy you, the fact that you are having repeated trouble with stumps may indicate you are not using the appropriate tools. Often small contractors, especially SS contractors, arrive in a truck inadequate for transport of stumps or debris. Since a SS operation is flexible because it can travel on one-ton and small trailers, you, as a vendor must exercise some responsibility in accepting work.
It is possible to dig the way out of Levinworth with a spoon. If someone is willing to pay you by the hour to do things for which your machine is not adequate, God bless, but remember, when you employ a short wrench to turn a 2" nut, it goes slowly and seems difficult. If you use a larger tool, the problems often disappear or shrink.
SS machines are great and flexible beyond compare, but they are a small tool and work best when paired with light grading.

( in soft dirt, a 320 Cat excavator can load around 200 tandem loads of dirt a day and over 125 in heavy dirts and shale or light rock. It would take 10 or 12 big SS to do that ( in soft soils) at a cost of 5 to 6 times MORE! In heavy and rocky soils the SS may be useless.
On larger jobs, I would suggest finding a larger contractor who can do the front end clearing, transportation and then take over after the heavy trash is managed. You may be surprised to discover more money in your pocket and fewer machine repairs by using this tactic.

On smaller clearing jobs you may want to anticipate transport or grinding in your estimate. It is costly to stall a crew because trash management is underbid.

If you haul logs to sawmills and only have to manage tops and stumps, obviously, there are fewer cubic yards of trash to manage and you have created a cash flow from the trash. Remember, it takes significant wood to burn stumps, so if you're transporting logs to saw mills, make sure you keep some logs to burn with the stumps if your tops prove inadequate.
 

digger242j

Administrator
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
6,654
Location
Southwestern PA
Occupation
Self employed excavator
There's an outfit in the Pittsburgh area that will drop a 30 yard roll-off box on your site. You can put not only stumps, but entire trees if they'll fit. We usually just open the gate and stuff the brush and branches through it, and then pack the logs and stumps on top to hold the whole mess down and make more room. I haven't had to pay for one--the developer does that--but I believe they're about $300. They take the material and grind it all up and somehow manufacture topsoil out of it.

About 16 years ago I worked for a contractor on a site where we had a lot of clearing to do. He used to commute the 30 miles back and forth every day in his tractor and dump trailer. Every day for a month he hauled a load of stumps home with him and buried them in a deep valley he had behind his yard.
 

DKinWA

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2003
Messages
210
Location
Western Washington
Occupation
Biologist and Contractor
I'll burn if I can, but it's becoming increasingly difficult to burn near urban areas. There are times I can't and wish I could, but I understand the burning restrictions and don't really have a problem with them. There's nothing worse on a warm day when you open the windows for some fresh air and smoke starts blowing through the windows.

If I can't burn them, I usually truck them to the local landfill for clearing debris. It can be expensive at times, but I don't have to worry about fires getting away and a fire watch isn't needed. I just pass along the cost to the customer and bid accordingly.
 

triaxle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2005
Messages
61
Location
Cleveland, GA
Occupation
CEO Mid-sized Grading Company
Stump burial

There are a number of situations where stump burial may be legal. I am not trying to quote interstate E.P.D. law but here are some situations in which stump burial has been allowed.

Remember, all non-sourcepoint enforcement is local. That usually means it varies from county to county and state to state. Some local counties may employ marshalls to enforce their laws or make inspections in the company of the E.P.D. but the counties enforce the laws. ( I was advised of this by a Washington based federal EPA agent)
If the counties or DOT decide a fill would be beneficial, they can allow it.
There are also stand off regulations governing burial near property lines or house and septic areas.
If you check out the EPA website, you will discover they actually give advice on how to bury stumps.
Farms are exempt from some EPA guidelines and also may represent an area in which burial may be allowed.

All of the overlapping jurisdictions, inconsistent enforcement, and many interpretations of the law confuse everyone.
Counties under 10,000 population have different levels of enforcement than counties over 10, 000. Counties with over 100,000 population are enforced differently than smaller counties. Various agencies with different agents interpret environmental law differently.

If you are concerned about any environmental enforcement issue, go to the enforcement agency and discuss your specific needs and options. A pocket recorder is a good tool to document your visit.
 

digger242j

Administrator
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Messages
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Southwestern PA
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Self employed excavator
A pocket recorder is a good tool to document your visit.

But be sure that any recordings made are known to all parties involved--that's a whole 'nother set of laws....
 

triaxle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2005
Messages
61
Location
Cleveland, GA
Occupation
CEO Mid-sized Grading Company
Misunderstood?

I may have been unclear. I suggested taking a pocket recorder as a tool to document a meeting with officials to discuss waste disposal possibilities.
At no time was any suggestion of hiding the recorder or any suggestion to assemble evidence.

Here is an example of the benefit of making a recording. In 2003, we were doing a housing development and 500' DOT decel on US 441. There were three drainage towers and several hundred feet of buried culvert, a diversion pond, and a weir box all in the DOT ROW.

The second day we were on the job, it became clear that the engineer in charge had completely missed the drainage plan and the computations related to all pipe and drainage.

We showed the DOT inspector the problems with the plans and all agreed to do an "as built." This conversation was recorded by a pocket recorder that was not hidden.

Several weeks later, we received a call from the developer saying the engineer would not sign off on our work because he was not advised of our agreement with the DOT inspector and our work was different than his plans.

To our amazement the original DOT inspector, since we had spoken, had retired and gone out west hunting and was not available to confirm our agreement. The new inspector was a reasonable man but not an engineer so he couldn't help on his own.
The recording saved us from having to do the work a second time and forced the engineer to sign off.
God sides with a clear paper trail.

A summary statement might be, I believe you will do well dealing with agencies if you talk to the officials, it makes them feel like you're trying to work with them. Recording the things they say about your projects shows them you are trying to get it right and gives you the opportunity to review and document everything that was said.

Thanx
 

DennisJonesCon.

Active Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Messages
28
Location
East TN
Occupation
All construction
I was able to burn most of the stumps and the rest are buried ......a few popped back up but won't be much of a problem getting rid of......one more big fire and a little dressing the banks and I'm done. The biggest problem was beating the rain. One hard rain filled the larger pond and an underground wet weather spring kept the lower pond filled with mud. I'll have to wait for dry weather to finish the levy on the lower pond. The muck and mud just kept sliding back into the bottom......Once all is dried out, I'll pile it up with the excavator. I'll have to create a spill way ffrom the upper pond into the lower....maybe a concrete ledge for a waterfall effect. But it was an experience....now I'm ready to find another piece and do it again.
 

digger242j

Administrator
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
6,654
Location
Southwestern PA
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Self employed excavator
I may have been unclear. I suggested taking a pocket recorder as a tool to document a meeting with officials to discuss waste disposal possibilities.

I understood what you meant. I also understand that somebody reading your suggestion might not realize the legal implications of making a tape recording without the knowlege of all the parties involved. For that reason I thought it was worth mentioning...
 
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