What does anybody know about a National 400 series truck mount crane?

[1693TA]

Don't think I've ever seen this model but seems to be not worn out and truck has burnt from and engine fire. I've not talked to the owner yet but do know of him.

 

[skyking1]

They made two models, the 446 and the 455 with the number being the boom length. What are your intentions with it? Does it have a jib? I probably have operated a 400 but did not watch the model numbers so much. You look them over, fire it up, look at the load chart and go to work. Nationals are fairly predictable to operate.
Edit: this might be a 400. It won't do all 3 fast, but does have a two section pump so the winch is not affected by boom and swing.

 

[1693TA]

Just general purpose work. Nothing on jobsites other than my own. Looking to replace my old crane truck seen in other threads.

No folding jib I'm aware of.

 

[skyking1]

might be worth the trouble if you have a handle on what burned and you buy it right. Whatever happened to the demo work and the JD160?

 

[1693TA]

might be worth the trouble if you have a handle on what burned and you buy it right. Whatever happened to the demo work and the JD160?

Demo work on property went partially as planned, but guy backed out on excavator so they rented a large one and did that work themselves. I used my dozer to smooth and mostly push trees and debris into piles for burning. Nowhere near the involvement I was supposed to have; but the project is not complete yet. Did not use my truck, nor borrowed dump trailer as nothing left their property.

Excavator had a bad final, or major problem on one side and both sides couldn't get together on repairs so he took it back broken. I seen it but never operated the machine and don't know the disposition but son in law says it wasn't real pretty? Something underlying there I'm not privy to. The guy retained it and purchased the new one outright. Still have the balance of this, and next quarter to work with and if something isn't found I'll pick up another parcel of real estate to close the year out.

Truck with the crane is a 97 Sterling w/Cummins engine and had a fuel leak. Burnt the engine and cab really well but crane portion doesn't appear to be hurt. It was used in a local outfit for yard work but I really don't know more than that. It's about 60ft. in height and I was told it will lift 10 tons close in with the boom really elevated. Said he'd cut the truck in half if I wanted to graft it to another but I'm interested in building on a Mack and the frame is different height and width, and then the killer, aluminum. Both trucks are long, and tandem.

 

[skyking1]

10 ton would be a 400B
Here is the product guide at Manitowoc's site.
https://www.manitowoc.com/national-crane/stand-boom-trucks/400b#specifications

The 10 ton thing is a joke, you can't even be off the bed a foot for that right in your armpit. Look out at the other end of the chart to see what you can do with it. Multiply the chart number by 0.75 and subtract 100 for the ball and then any rigging below that.
It will set light trusses if you can get right up on the job, logs for a cabin, etc.

 

[1693TA]

Heaviest I've ever hung and swung was automobiles with Fred and he did fine with that. I did set the 70' 2/12 pitch steel beam trusses for my building with him also, but did have to block the rear against the ground to support the weight. Truss peak is 27'4" to sand base before concrete was placed. No idea as to weight. Fred has always worked well for me but I'd like to have something a bit heavier and then longer reach.

Not really a need, just a want.

 

[skyking1]

you'll break that crane using it like you use fred. Better off without. Not knowing the weight is not a good starting point.

 

[1693TA]

Far too generic of use to know any kind of weight estimations. Fred gets pressed into use for whatever I can use him for. He is usually long and strong enough but I'm looking to ease the process if possible. I'd like to have something with more swing capacity basically. Dead lift really isn't a problem. I could easily address this with rear outriggers having a wide stance, or my original stiff legs idea. What I mainly do not favor with Fred is the lack of hydraulic extension ability. If I could incorporate something along those lines, I'd be set with what I have.

 

[1693TA]

Back to that demo work for a minute. As said the job is not yet complete. The second parcel of property purchased for ingress to their property is former coal mine as all is in that area. Problem is, that house that plans are to take down is tied up in some kind of "historical" society entity of the coal mining operations of Fulton County, IL. There is some type of legal arguing going on now. That house was an office or something to that effect at one time. That mine closed in the later 1960's.

To me it sounds a bit like legalized extortion as the place has sat derelict for years till an interest was expressed for the purchase. The neighbors now own it but can't do anything with it basically so it remains looking badly neglected.

I'm told when this fiasco clears and if I'm ready, we'll get back onto the path again. With no certain future for this work I took my dozer back to the family property then shortly afterward discovered fuel in the oil again. Pump is currently off getting rebuilt as the lip seal was bad upon pulling the pump from the engine. I need to pick that up come to think of it.....

 

[Acoals]

A heavy Knuckleboom might be a good candidate . . .

 

[1693TA]

A heavy Knuckleboom might be a good candidate . . .

I have not really been around those much. I looked at one about five years ago but every pin and joint along with controls lacked even basic maintenance practices.

 

[Acoals]

Back when I worked in the gravel pit we had an old Mack flatbed with a knuckle boom, it was extremely useful for general service work.
One of the local concrete outfits in my area has a couple trucks set up with them on the tail of the truck, they will pick up a 2500 gallon holding tank and boom it 20' out from the truck. That's like 18,000lb, I think.

 

[1693TA]

There is a local outfit that sells them. I'll stop by and talk but couldn't justify a new purchase. They may know of a good used unit however. A guy I know worked there for a while is how I know about them at all.

 

[1693TA]

I called Cranes & Equipment this afternoon in Peoria. They sell and install an Italian brand of knuckleboom crane but do have several used ones that are trade ins, or taken off old trucks. The guy I was talking to on the phone said he'd check inventory to see what would go onto my old Mack without a lot of fabrication.

I'll follow up with him on Monday, or Tuesday. Actually toyed with building my own using "Fred" as a pattern but going with a collapsible box boom type affair rather than round pipe as he has. I have these long stroking cylinders which stroke just shy of 118" and are double acting but a bit large for the application:



I pressurized them to 2000 psi last year so know they are good.

 

[1693TA]

That National Crane I referenced is a 400A series and was working well till the truck burnt. I can buy the crane for a good price if I remove it, but as Skyking stated and I think into it the usage would be very limited for me. To get any kind of lifting capacity I would need to be outside, and close to the truck with the boom highly elevated. With "Fred", I've swung complete cars 90 degrees to the side to load 2nd tier stack on a scrap trailer, and he's small enough to use inside the building which has been done a lot. Having my gantry has minimized this however.

I'm going to look into the knuckleboom crane a bit deeper but I may just pull the crane and hydraulics from "Fred" and upgrade to a solenoid valve package using D03 valves and eliminate the mechanical drive except for the pumping unit. This could be done easy enough and wireless remote control incorporated. That would then make that old Mack useful to me.

 

[skyking1]

Sounds like a plan. FYI the 400A is an 8 ton as far as I can figure out, the B is the 10 ton.

 

[1693TA]

Thanks. I have a lot of hydraulic valves, blocks, motors, etc. around here and old "Fred" has really been useful over the years. The mechanical valves using push pull "Morse" cables from inside the cab has been a limitation but not too bad till they started going bad from age. Truck is quite cumbersome to operate by my lonesome and keep an eye on everything going. If I upgrade to more modern operation, a new lease on life will happen. He's always done what I've needed so kinda pleased to have a plan to keep him around.

 

[1693TA]

Been working with a couple of former coworkers one of which specialized in hydraulic drives and I think I'm going to follow a few of his suggestions and get away from tandem center valves and go with blocked A&B ports and use a solenoid operated pressure relief valve, (dump valve) at the end of the manifold along with system pressure relief on the inlet side, (pump discharge). This will reduce the hydraulic pressure in the system returning oil to tank immediately after a completed function and preclude heat buildup within the system. Oil still flows the whole time so a fixed, positive displacement pump can be utilized. A couple of heavily dampened solenoid operated directional valves, (soft start) would be fitted to both the winch drive motor, and swing cylinder so they would be smooth and linear in operation. Proportional control would be beneficial here but a lot of $$$ to make that happen.

I figure a total of seven solenoid operated directional control valves would be needed: Four outriggers, swing, winch, boom elevation and of course the pressure relief valve. Pressure compensation would/could also play to make the system behave as desired. I could make all this work wireless but will most likely go with pendant control; or a combination of both. Would be nice to level the truck on the outriggers via control panel located in/on the truck, and all other functions work via wireless remote.

I just hope there isn't more than a black, and a white wire involved as I get confused easily.