Water and sewer excavators

[S120483]

I am in charge of all of the machinery in our water and sewer company. We run a variety of sizes of excavators. We have mostly all CAT excavators right now. Ownership has been giving more power to me for machinery purchases and care. I want to get all of your opinion on excavator brands these days. Our owners have always been CAT fanatics but are starting to consider other options as the dealership has been dropping he ball lately. I think this gives me a shot to look at other brands as possible better options versus having our hands tied with whatever CAT makes next. I think CAT is a great machine, just haven't so much as demoed other brands yet given our current loyalties. We have 315 all the way to 375 size CAT excavators. Smaller units are used in tight spaces and for setting structures and ho-packing. We have the 375 for deeper jobs. Most machines are 330-345 class. What are some of your guys' favorite brands for sewer application? We do currently use pin grabber couplers on some machines in the fleet. I am trying to push for every machines to have a coupler soon. I think there is value in switching buckets on the same cut depending on depth. Your guys' thoughts here? One owner does believe couplers to be a pain. Most of our pin grabbers now are on the smaller machines that use the ho-pack. I am working to change this belief. Thanks

 

[Shimmy1]

I have ran Case hoes my whole life. I have ran others from time to time, Cat, Komatsu, Deere, to name a few. I have never thought the Cat lacked anything except being comparably priced. Komatsu, I've always felt they were light in the tail. Only ones I thought otherwise were the HD models. I was told the only difference was 17% more counterweight. Cabs ever since the Dash 7 have been superb, although I think the joysticks are a bit long for my liking. Deere, better have a bulk tank handy because they like their fuel. The most economical machine by far will be a Case/Link Belt, with Komatsu coming in second, then Cat, then Deere. This is coming from my experience. As far as Deere controls, thought they were fine. Deere seemed to be kind of like Komatsu and Daewoo, more of a bucket digger. As for your coupler question, I believe that is a matter of preference. You don't say where you are from, or what kind of buckets you run, or your soil types. If you're digging in good dirt, you probably won't even know you have a coupler. However, if your ground is on the tougher side, the guys might notice the loss of breakout. Something else to consider is unless all the operators are top notch, 25 yr. guys, over-filling the bucket can be an issue without a coupler. It causes accelerated pin and bushing wear on the main bucket hinge pin. A coupler basically prevents this from being an issue unless the operator is completely oblivious. Good luck, hope your dealers make it easy for you.

 

[S120483]

Shimmy1 thanks for the reply. We work all over OH, IN, and MI. I would say we are in clay and can mostly. I would say we have pretty good dealer support from CAT, Volvo and Deere in most of the areas we seem to work. Case and Komatsu are kinda hit and miss it seems form what I have heard. I know they don't call on me much. Volvo and Deere salesman talk to me every month even though we haven't bought a thing from them yet.

 

[Shimmy1]

I have not heard any really good reports on the Volvo equipment around here. Nothing too specific, just haven't heard anyone say that they are just as good as the Big brands. It's more than likely going to come down to the dealer unless your guys just don't like a particular brand. One thing you might run into though is us operators are creatures of habit. Caterpillar has always been viewed as the top of the heap. Your operators might not be too impressed if they have to get into something other than Cat. This may lead to not as much pride or care taken on the machines.

 

[S120483]

Yeah Volvo excavators scare us too. I hear their loaders are good. Haven't heard much on excavators to be honest but maybe thats a bad thing. Have heard Deere units are strong. Yeah the operators may buck us. I have been dropping hints at a few possible demos once I decide who is worth while to work with possibly. But I do know what your saying on the perception thing.

 

[WRS_Mark]

The new Cat E Series excavators are pretty impressive rigs. I have always been a Hitachi fan, love the newer Case models and despised all but a couple of Komatsu excavators that I have operated over the years, simply because their pilot control systems never seemed to be set up as well. Volvo excavators have never done me any wrong, although I have heard of seal failures in extremely cold weather, which shouldn't be an issue for a company doing water and sewer. But if you can straighten things out with your Caterpillar dealer, I'd stick with Cat. The new 320, 336 and 349 I had an opportunity to operate, although for short periods of time being that I'm supposed to be the supervisor and stay out of the iron, simply blew me away with how precise they are in comparison to the previous generations.

 

[S120483]

Have you ran many of the newer Hitachi's? Our Deere dealer is a Hitachi dealer too. I know 470 up are same as Deere besides paint. He was telling me Hitachi was cheaper than Deere for some reason. Worth considering these. Parts I would assume are same as Deere? How is parts supply vs. CAT? You also said you like the new Case rigs. How do you think they longevity will be? Built to last you think? Always thought the Case rep was they were light. I may be wrong, we don't see many of their machines around here.

 

[Shimmy1]

Like I said earlier, I've ran Case hoes since I knew what an excavator was. If your only doing water/sewer work, I don't see any reason that the Case will give you any less life than anything else. I do know the Case will run cheaper than any other brand. If you're Deere/Hitachi dealer is close though, and they will take care of you, maybe they are the way to go. Here in ND, I have the least amount of respect for any Deere construction dealer. It's an act of congress to get a salesman on the phone(they NEVER call you), then you ask them for a price, once again never call back. Was thru it on a scraper, excavator, now this fall same thing with the track loader. I am done with Deere construction here in ND.

 

[WRS_Mark]

We had two 470 Deeres on site this year and although I only spent perhaps two or three hours in one while I did some final grading, I could tell they are an excellent machine and that sentiment was shared by the operators I had working for me, really top end guys, so I'll take their word as gospel. The 349 Cat, which is the same size, is pretty much equal in performance as far as I can tell, though I did like the cab a little better than the Deere. As for the newer Case equipment I have spent time in, as I understand, they are built by Sumitomo in Japan. They very closely resemble a Hitachi in terms of the engines (Isuzu) and although I forget the brand of pumps, they appear identical. I'd be willing to bet you'll see the same Japanese quality in a Case that you would see in a Hitachi. As for parts availability, the Cat, Komatsu, Deere, Hitachi and Case brands seem to have no issues in parts and service, aside from the fact that Alberta is woefully short of skilled labour, due to the massive projects under construction in the oil sands.

 

[S120483]

Shimmy1, that pisses me off too. If you can't give me a quote how can I expect you to service it, especially any pesky warranty stuff that comes up. I take it your Case dealer is top notch? Any experience with Case dozers? We used to have a old Case dozer here. Maybe it was a 450. That is the only Case pc I think this company ever owned.

 

[Shimmy1]

Yep. Spent hours and hours on an 1150C. When the P.O.S. 451 started pissing in the oil, we repowered with a B5.9 150 hp. Made a mean little crawler out of it. Had to watch trans temp though. I always thought I wanted a 1550 but after we got a D7H I forgot that silly notion.

 

[Shimmy1]

About the dealers, I find it ridiculous that any salesman will neglect to call someone back within the hour if they are asking for a new machine quote. Used machines I can understand, but new? When we did our skid steer rodeo the Case, Cat, and Bobcat were there the next day. We did get a Kubota, that guy was kinda tough, we ended up paying them $150 to bring it out. They were dancing around pretty hard about bringing us one(I guess they were 135 mi away, but Case was 115, not a prob). Anyway, the consensus on here seems to be dealer first, machine second. Deere gets an F, Kubota gets a D, our Case and Cat get A's, we'll find out next summer when the rubber meets the dirt on the Bobcat.

 

[TrentNz]

Ill still stand by Hitachi. Great machines

 

[john1066]

336 cat for water and 390 or 374 for sewer.

 

[S120483]

Well we have been running the Case 350C and Komatsu 490LC-10 today. I now they aren't apples to apples in size and we are more interested in the 490 size at this point. That being said the Komatsu is a really nice machine. Very fast yet has good power. Don't want to judge the Case on the power to much based on it's size vs the 490. I do really like the 490 over our 345 Cat that we have here on this site. Anyone on this forum run the larger 750 and 800 Komatsu's? Curious if they are as nice as these medium size units.

 

[JGibson]

I'm gonna sound like a broken record. I do not work for Link Belt or a Link Belt dealership or anything. Our company has had the best luck with Link Belt. We have run everything, my family business has all cat. But our company runs Link Belt. They last forever, great dealership support, ton of power, comfortable. We have one with 17000 hours that we still use. old LS-3400. Our newer ones are just as good. I know Case is the same as Link Belt but Link belt dealerships are a bit better in my experience. I would look at them. Not a fan of the new X4 series but the X3's and X2's etc are great.

 

[Jeff J]

I'm a little new to these excavators but I'm demoing a pre owned Bobcat E32 this Friday
We have rented several Deere 35D and Bobcat E32 and 35's", one Cat model ???? 7,800 lb machines and the Bobcats out digs the Deere big time. Not even close.... The cat wasn't bad but the Bobcat had more hoe power.
Like I said I'm no expert for sure but I thought it was odd that Bobcat wasn't mentioned much in
This thread....

 

[JGibson]

Like I said I'm no expert for sure but I thought it was odd that Bobcat wasn't mentioned much in
This thread....

Maybe its because they are talking about excavators for water and sewer, last I check bobcat doesn't make a 45 ton machine...

 

[Shimmy1]

:crying

Maybe its because they are talking about excavators for water and sewer, last I check bobcat doesn't make a 45 ton machine...

 

[Ozz]

My vote either stick with Cat or try Volvo in the 75,000 and 100,000 lb weight class.

I was never impressed with smaller Hitachi excavators. I always felt they lacked power but their 650 and 850 machines are fantastic.

I also love Cat's 385,/390 it may be the best, most balanced feeling machine in this class.

The Cat E series machines are amazing. The Volvo machines are kind of slow, but they're really smooth and really powerful.