Useless truck dealer...

[Truck Shop]

Why?

Because there light, cheap to build and the plastic dissipates heat fast.

 

[Welder Dave]

No aftermarket pans available for the 2.7. Apparently the pans have special baffles in them so oil drains slower for the start/stop feature. Newer engines use a neoprene gasket or something like that but it can't be used on the older engines. I think some of them are leaking too. I think the 3.5's went to an aluminum pan and there is an aftermarket available too. The latest TSB is supposed to fix the leaking if done properly but is an expensive repair.

 

[suladas]

No aftermarket pans available for the 2.7. Apparently the pans have special baffles in them so oil drains slower for the start/stop feature. Newer engines use a neoprene gasket or something like that but it can't be used on the older engines. I think some of them are leaking too. I think the 3.5's went to an aluminum pan and there is an aftermarket available too. The latest TSB is supposed to fix the leaking if done properly but is an expensive repair.

I will never understand the way Ford went with a lot of that BS between the ecoboost and having trucks that shut off after a few seconds. It's all nothing but problems.

 

[Tinkerer]

Seems strange,
Dealers get paid for doing warranty work by the .mfr don't they ?
I would think the would be eager to do all the warranty work they can get.
Dam, Dave you deserve a break.
My nephew has a 2019 Ford super duty 250 and it has the famous front end shake.
They haven't been able to fix it yet.

 

[Welder Dave]

Start/stop has been trouble free. Eco-boost are good engines but they needed to pay more attention to a few things like the oil pan leaks.

 

[suladas]

The difference between then and now.

In 1961 my dad bought a 1960 Ford Ranch station wagon-{back when they still made a thing called a station wagon}. We didn't have it six months and the transmission went south,
then a electrical fire and after that brake issues. If I remember correctly it spent most of late 1961 at the dealer he bought it from. His complaints went no where and we were lucky
at the time to still have the old 52 Plymouth potato car to drive. So he went to the bank that financed that Ford and told the head banker the story. The banker grabbed his hat and
told dad we're going for a ride and see those folks.

To make it short-The banker told them he financed alot of cars from that dealer and the car that they sold my dad was a lemon and they better take care of it by getting him a new
or different car of equal value when he bought the car. That dealer rolled over and took the car back and he drove away with a new 1961 Ford Wagon. It was a pretty good car.
Those days are long gone your just a account number, and nobody really cares. It's all a roll of the dice.

The problem is many dealers have the attitude it's a big enough city they don't need repeat business, loyalty means nothing to them. About 10 years ago I bought a used 07 Dodge with the Cummins from a Chev dealer, biggest mistake ever. After a few months started running rough, in the little over a year I owned it it spent about 4 months at the dealership trying to fix it. It was so bad when I would bring it in they knew me, the truck, everything. They pulled the engine out 3 times, replaced transmission, replaced cam, some pistons, injectors, injector wiring, everything. I think the initial problem was simply injector wiring, but it ran so long shaking it tore everything else apart. I went back to dealer I bought it from and they contacted the old owners who "denied to say why they sold it" in a round about way the salesman admitted they traded it in because it had problems. The truck only had 70,000km on it, engine warranty is 160,000km so it's not like it was even anywhere close. Dodge was just buying time until the 5 years ran out.

I tried to get the dealership and Dodge to both sell me a new truck at cost, void the warranty on the truck and run it though an auction. Cheapest and easiest solution, not to mention keep me happy. Or pull the engine and put in a new crate motor and replace absolutely everything at one time. Both refused. They also eventually got to the point of saying the engine ran fine even though you could visibly watch it shake well beyond what it should at idle so I was forced to sell it. The dealer off the record told me Dodge said enough is enough, we're not spending anymore money on the truck. Found out later on new owner had it back at same dealership for exact same problem.

I bet Dodge paid at least $30k to the dealership in repairs when I owned it, they would have been much further ahead to buy it and void the warranty, but nope.

 

[suladas]

Start/stop has been trouble free. Eco-boost are good engines but they needed to pay more attention to a few things like the oil pan leaks.

I guess it depends on your opinion of trouble free and where you look. If you asked people who owned them up to 100km you'd likely hear mostly good. But around 150k+ many seem to hate them because so many become money pits. Also so much more expensive to fix then a regular gas engine that preforms just as well.

 

[Welder Dave]

Seems strange,
Dealers get paid for doing warranty work by the .mfr don't they ?
I would think the would be eager to do all the warranty work they can get.
Dam, Dave you deserve a break.
My nephew has a 2019 Ford super duty 250 and it has the famous front end shake.
They haven't been able to fix it yet.

From what I have read dealers sometimes have to be careful of how many warranty claims they put in. This dealer is in a smaller market than the big city dealers. If they put in more claims (per capita) than a bigger dealer might raise red flags for Ford with more claims denied. The other thing I've read is that warranty work doesn't pay as much as what the dealer could charge a customer and sometimes the work takes longer than is allotted. I can see a busy dealer wanting to do more customer paid work and getting full retail on parts supplied. I don't think a dealer makes any markup on parts for warranty work as they are supplied by the OEM.

A lot of the problem is with Ford but but despite what the dealer is telling me, I have no way of knowing how much the dealer actually went to bat for me or what was actually communicated to Ford. Did the fact I got the service agreement done on warranty somehow negate getting the oil leak on warranty? There is an arbitrator you can have look into the issue but I think under the circumstances the oil leaks at least should be covered fully under the power train warranty. I hope to talk to the other dealer tomorrow. I'm not giving up without a fight on this one.

 

[John Canfield]

My wife has a 2020 Lincoln Avaitor (Lincoln version of the new rear wheel drive Explorer) with the stupid stop-start 'feature.' There's a plug and play bypass kit to permanently disable that 'feature,' I will be buying one. It can be disabled in the menu but it resets every time you shut off the vehicle. Why put 10x or 100x the wear on the starter so Ford could make their mpg numbers?

 

[suladas]

From what I have read dealers sometimes have to be careful of how many warranty claims they put in. This dealer is in a smaller market than the big city dealers. If they put in more claims (per capita) than a bigger dealer might raise red flags for Ford with more claims denied. The other thing I've read is that warranty work doesn't pay as much as what the dealer could charge a customer and sometimes the work takes longer than is allotted. I can see a busy dealer wanting to do more customer paid work and getting full retail on parts supplied. I don't think a dealer makes any markup on parts for warranty work as they are supplied by the OEM.

A lot of the problem is with Ford but but despite what the dealer is telling me, I have no way of knowing how much the dealer actually went to bat for me or what was actually communicated to Ford. Did the fact I got the service agreement done on warranty somehow negate getting the oil leak on warranty? There is an arbitrator you can have look into the issue but I think under the circumstances the oil leaks at least should be covered fully under the power train warranty. I hope to talk to the other dealer tomorrow. I'm not giving up without a fight on this one.

Warranty work does pay less, but in the last year or so many if not all dealers have been slow. They've been bugging the hell out of me and everyone I know begging to bring vehicles in for warranty/recall work. A few years ago when things were busy it was the opposite but right now many are going the extra mile to get things covered to bring them work. I think a big city dealer would be a better bet. If they want to get it covered they have a lot more pull then the little dealers. However time is against you, the longer it waits the harder it will be to get covered. Do you have it well documented about contacting the dealer at the 1100 km over or whatever it was?

 

[suladas]

My wife has a 2020 Lincoln Avaitor (Lincoln version of the new rear wheel drive Explorer) with the stupid stop-start 'feature.' There's a plug and play bypass kit to permanently disable that 'feature,' I will be buying one. It can be disabled in the menu but it resets every time you shut off the vehicle. Why put 10x or 100x the wear on the starter so Ford could make their mpg numbers?

Whoever makes Ford starters loves it! I can't imagine the MPG benefits being much if at all, if you're stopped for under a minute it would burn more restarting then idling. Also it's way more wear on the engine. It wouldn't be so bad if it turned off at the 2 minute mark or so. But what about if it's -30 or +30? Terrible design.

 

[Truck Shop]

Warranty work years back was bolts off bolts on time only, it didn't pay time to source the parts, clean related parts or area clean up afterward. The flat rate was cut to the bone, if you didn't have
your air tools just a humming you would lose your a$$ on the job. I suppose 30% of my work on 6.9-7.3 diesel and any gas power that landed in my stall was warranty work, but I still averaged
215 hrs a period, sometimes or the highest IIRC was 235 hrs. You can't stand and gab on flat rate and include warranty work.

 

[Truck Shop]

My wife has a 2020 Lincoln Avaitor (Lincoln version of the new rear wheel drive Explorer) with the stupid stop-start 'feature.' There's a plug and play bypass kit to permanently disable that 'feature,' I will be buying one. It can be disabled in the menu but it resets every time you shut off the vehicle. Why put 10x or 100x the wear on the starter so Ford could make their mpg numbers?

With Freightliner or other brands it's called optimum idle, mainly to be used in the winter and summer months. And it can be program deleted, but their are drivers who are constantly idling as much as
65% idle time-add that one up in diesel fuel burned going no where. And yes it wears out starters no doubt about that, by the time some trucks have 200,000 on them the starter has been replaced.
Then the other factor is actual engine hours on oil and filters with high idle time, few calculate the actual run time between services. I liked the old days-no AC and a heater that put out just
enough to keep the frost bite away. People stay skinnier when they sweat or have to work to stay warm.

 

[Welder Dave]

Warranty work does pay less, but in the last year or so many if not all dealers have been slow. They've been bugging the hell out of me and everyone I know begging to bring vehicles in for warranty/recall work. A few years ago when things were busy it was the opposite but right now many are going the extra mile to get things covered to bring them work. I think a big city dealer would be a better bet. If they want to get it covered they have a lot more pull then the little dealers. However time is against you, the longer it waits the harder it will be to get covered. Do you have it well documented about contacting the dealer at the 1100 km over or whatever it was?

I've got a pic. on my phone of the mileage before I took it in (for approval of the service) and the work order for the service shows the mileage. Dealer also has the complete service history as they did it and it was not just oil changes. This last service they changed the tranny fluid, spark plugs, etc. If my brakes would have been less than 3mm they would have changed them too.

 

[CM1995]

My nephew has a 2019 Ford super duty 250 and it has the famous front end shake.
They haven't been able to fix it yet.

Stock truck? If it's stock, the geometry is out of whack from the factory and the dealer should be able to get it back in line.

I played hell when I leveled the front of my F350. Finally got it right after a dual steering stabilizer and Carli track bar.

Won't be leveling anymore trucks in the future as long as Ford offers the Tremor package.

 

[Tinkerer]

Stock truck? If it's stock, the geometry is out of whack from the factory and the dealer should be able to get it back in line.
I played hell when I leveled the front of my F350. Finally got it right after a dual steering stabilizer and Carli track bar.
Won't be leveling anymore trucks in the future as long as Ford offers the Tremor package.

I'm not trying to hijack this thread. but ----->https://thelemonfirm.com/2019/12/13/be-afraid-be-very-afraid-of-the-ford-super-duty-death-wobble/

 

[CM1995]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread. but ----->https://thelemonfirm.com/2019/12/13/be-afraid-be-very-afraid-of-the-ford-super-duty-death-wobble/

Death wobble is common with straight axle 4x4 front ends when the geometry gets out of whack. All sorts of vehicles with straight front axles can experience it.

My stock '13 F350 would exhibit slight death wobble when the front tires were getting worn close to replacement. Replaced the tires and it went away.

 

[Truck Shop]

This issue goes back into the late 80's with the super duty including the 2WD's. As far as I know Dodge has not had that issue with solid steer axles. The death wobble as it's called is violent
as hell in some cases. As I said before the Ag company I worked for had four that had that problem those were all 2WD and all had the issue under 30,000 from new plus it only took 40mph
to set up the shimmy. Tires were changed, springs, panard bar, shocks, tie rods, king pins including the steering boxes and column joint by the dealer to no avail, plus several independent
alignment shops checked them. When I worked for that company one driver fractured his wrist trying to keep it under control at 50. All four ended up under the lemon law. The years of the
companies super duties that had the issue were from 89 through 94. Steering stabilizers were installed to try and mask the problem but that's all it did was mask it. When I see a large ford
coming my way I keep an eye on it.

 

[repowerguy]

This issue goes back into the late 80's with the super duty including the 2WD's. As far as I know Dodge has not had that issue with solid steer axles. The death wobble as it's called is violent
as hell in some cases. As I said before the Ag company I worked for had four that had that problem those were all 2WD and all had the issue under 30,000 from new plus it only took 40mph
to set up the shimmy. Tires were changed, springs, panard bar, shocks, tie rods, king pins including the steering boxes and column joint by the dealer to no avail, plus several independent
alignment shops checked them. When I worked for that company one driver fractured his wrist trying to keep it under control at 50. All four ended up under the lemon law. The years of the
companies super duties that had the issue were from 89 through 94. Steering stabilizers were installed to try and mask the problem but that's all it did was mask it. When I see a large ford
coming my way I keep an eye on it.

Where I work I had a 95 Super Duty [450] that had the death shake if you didn't put a steering stabilizer on it every 18 months. If you did that, it was smooth as glass.

 

[Truck Shop]

Where I work I had a 95 Super Duty [450] that had the death shake if you didn't put a steering stabilizer on it every 18 months. If you did that, it was smooth as glass.

And that is what was done in most cases, but I look at from the stand point of how much did the vehicle cost when new and it has to have parts added to it to make it drive-able? Wow that's
that's like adding an extra spring to the toaster to make sure the bread pops up to keep it from burning. It's a flawed design that is dangerous-and even worse on a slick road. Sorry but the
flaw has never been corrected and probably won't be corrected.