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unions
- Thread starter maq
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hackalot
Active Member
Job hunt
I would investigate the geographical area where I wanted to work and assess whether the jobs that might be available or union or non-union. I would only join the union if that is what it took to get a job. I've never understood how the added overhead cost of unions makes long term economic sense in the marketplace.
That having been said I was a union member when I was a steelworker many years ago.
I would investigate the geographical area where I wanted to work and assess whether the jobs that might be available or union or non-union. I would only join the union if that is what it took to get a job. I've never understood how the added overhead cost of unions makes long term economic sense in the marketplace.
That having been said I was a union member when I was a steelworker many years ago.
amscontr
Well-Known Member
That right there says it all! The wage cheaters are no different then the ones who hire illegal aliens and they BOTH are usually the same.
Personally I've worked both sides of the "coin" heads I win tails you lose.
From my own personal standpoint working your way up the list in the "local" is more rewarding then working "non".
milling_drum
Senior Member
We easily forget that the prevailing wage issue shifts dramatically when in the southern states. Dallas will not have anything even close to the same operator rates as ANY of the northern states on the eastern seaboard. With the exception of the western south, prevailing rates (union guarantee or not) will not pass the $20 per hour mark.
In Texas recently my pay rate was $15 per hour, In North Dakota the same job pays close to $30 an hour with company benefits. (no union, prevailing wage garantee)
These asphalt milling companies both are sub contractors to the SAME (Knife River) prime contractors on state and federal jobs. No union involvement in either area, the north gives the employee a decent pay rate because of seasonal issues and the fact that State/Fed Government guarantees it, NOT because of union membership.
Unions are good in certain areas, but the majority of the public works projects in the USA do NOT submit to union control for operators or labor.
In Texas recently my pay rate was $15 per hour, In North Dakota the same job pays close to $30 an hour with company benefits. (no union, prevailing wage garantee)
These asphalt milling companies both are sub contractors to the SAME (Knife River) prime contractors on state and federal jobs. No union involvement in either area, the north gives the employee a decent pay rate because of seasonal issues and the fact that State/Fed Government guarantees it, NOT because of union membership.
Unions are good in certain areas, but the majority of the public works projects in the USA do NOT submit to union control for operators or labor.
dirt digger
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2008
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- pushing dirt, baling hay, and hitting the books
or you can look at it this way...in non-union companies 9 times out of 10 a guy has a machine assigned to him. He may be the only one in that machine over its lifetime in some cases, therefore he is going to treat that machine like it is his. In unions you might get in a machine after 100 other guys have, chances are that machine is a pile of junk by this time...
also if you manage to find a large non-union company it is a safe bet to believe that they have a training program already in place to help their employees and see them advance...as well as fantastic benefits (they have to work to stay non-union)
also if you manage to find a large non-union company it is a safe bet to believe that they have a training program already in place to help their employees and see them advance...as well as fantastic benefits (they have to work to stay non-union)
CascadeScaper
Senior Member
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- 2nd year Operating Engineer Apprentice
If you're looking to get into operating, there are a couple ways you can do it. Only you can decide if the union route is right for you. Worst case scenario is that you get into the union and you don't like it. They don't own you, you can leave at any point. Might as well try it out and see if you like it that way you'll never be asking yourself down the road "what if I would've done that". The other way is to start as a laborer for a non-union outfit and work your way into a seat, which is doable as well.
I am an operating engineer apprentice, 2nd year along and I've had my ups and downs. Got into the program last year, which was not a good year to be starting off with zero connections. Had a job that got me 6 weeks of work and was laid off. I'm now with a heavy highway crew and love it, it's tough to beat the gig I'm working at right now and I enjoy every minute I'm there.
The main reason I went union route was for the training. I've been running heavy equipment for 6 years and have only scratched the surface of what can be learned before I got into the apprenticeship program. Our training grounds are phenomenal, we have at least 5-6 pieces in various sizes of each type of equipment, that's not including the 15+ cranes we have. The instructors are the best in what they teach, there's no question about that. Whatever I feel like learning, I can do it at the grounds. Nothing will replace seat time in regards to becoming a super skilled operator, but if you want to learn the techniques of the seasoned hands, chances are there is a class that will show you how.
On top of all that, the benefits and wages are excellent. The non-union guys are starting to get close to paying what a union outfit would, but they're not quite there. As far as retirement packages go, I think I'll pass on a 401K that most companies offer after witnessing the economic crisis we've been in, it's really tough to beat a union pension.
I am an operating engineer apprentice, 2nd year along and I've had my ups and downs. Got into the program last year, which was not a good year to be starting off with zero connections. Had a job that got me 6 weeks of work and was laid off. I'm now with a heavy highway crew and love it, it's tough to beat the gig I'm working at right now and I enjoy every minute I'm there.
The main reason I went union route was for the training. I've been running heavy equipment for 6 years and have only scratched the surface of what can be learned before I got into the apprenticeship program. Our training grounds are phenomenal, we have at least 5-6 pieces in various sizes of each type of equipment, that's not including the 15+ cranes we have. The instructors are the best in what they teach, there's no question about that. Whatever I feel like learning, I can do it at the grounds. Nothing will replace seat time in regards to becoming a super skilled operator, but if you want to learn the techniques of the seasoned hands, chances are there is a class that will show you how.
On top of all that, the benefits and wages are excellent. The non-union guys are starting to get close to paying what a union outfit would, but they're not quite there. As far as retirement packages go, I think I'll pass on a 401K that most companies offer after witnessing the economic crisis we've been in, it's really tough to beat a union pension.
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liebherr1160
Senior Member
The training is huge ...as Qball says....
Unions are not the banter or abundance of drunkin degenaerates that flop,fold,and Well ...generally screw up gear ...and return to work the next day because they have a union ...absolutly not ..
The OE union in particular ..is one the few unions that trains its brother's/sister's keeps them close ..weeds out the yo/yo's as best they can and supply reliable,knowledgeable dependable tradesmen to the labour force ...in fact it is arguable in labour court that as an OE your self employed ..you longivity and employability will be with you throughout your career based on your service will determine wether you make it as an OE or become a millwright.
Unions are not the banter or abundance of drunkin degenaerates that flop,fold,and Well ...generally screw up gear ...and return to work the next day because they have a union ...absolutly not ..
The OE union in particular ..is one the few unions that trains its brother's/sister's keeps them close ..weeds out the yo/yo's as best they can and supply reliable,knowledgeable dependable tradesmen to the labour force ...in fact it is arguable in labour court that as an OE your self employed ..you longivity and employability will be with you throughout your career based on your service will determine wether you make it as an OE or become a millwright.