Union or non Union?

[barklee]

I have been thinking from time to time about making my company union. We have been denied the opportunity many times to do or bid work for being non union. Basically we do about 80% prevailing wage work currently anyways, so i guess thats why i am considering it.
I would like to know what some of the negatives are by going union (if im even allowed to open this for answers??). I say this because i have weighed what i think are the positives. I truly dont know the particulars on how this all works and i am a little reluctant to open these questions to our local hall.

Please dont make any rude statements replying to this...... I am hoping to get an honest opinion without pissing anyone off in the process!!

Thank you in advance!!:drinkup

 

[digger242j]

I would like to know what some of the negatives are by going union (if im even allowed to open this for answers??).

Because it is one of those hot-button issues for many people, HEF's policy on the discussion of union/non-union has been expressed as one of "aggressive neutrality". Answers that consist of a statement of FACTS, are fine and acceptable. Once the replies begin to venture into the area of OPINION, either positive or negative, for either side of the question, they are out of bounds. I do believe we're all smart enough to know the difference between fact and opinion.

That having been said, carry on with the discussion...

 

[willie59]

Digger, bless his heart, is eloquent with words, to an extent I much appreciate and admire. But to cut to the chase barklee is asking for legitimate advice concerning his personal business. Please do offer him the pros and cons without digressing into a bout of "go union or go broke" or "go union and die" comments.

 

[JBGASH]

From a cost perspective you are doing 80% prevailing wage work, of which will be equal cost to union wages including fringes. An advantage I see would be your employess would then become eligble for the union health insurance & retirement plans. This would be something that would help retain good employees. For the remaining 20% of work it will be hard to be competitive on that, however many unions have "target" monies to help bolster smaller union companies do work and be competitive with non union outfits. good luck with your decision.

 

[truckdoctor]

I think it depends on what state your doing business in. If it is a "right-to-work" state you would probably be better to stay non union because you could stay more competitive. If you do business in an organized labor state the benifits would be towards being organized.

 

[barklee]

I think it depends on what state your doing business in. If it is a "right-to-work" state you would probably be better to stay non union because you could stay more competitive. If you do business in an organized labor state the benifits would be towards being organized.

Ohio currently is not a right to work state, or at least not that im aware of. Indiana is as of pretty recently and we do work in Indiana as well.

 

[curb guy]

My company,which my father started in 1965,was union for 20+ years.For most of those 20+ years,he held a laborers card,an operators card,and a finishers card.We are currently non-union and,have not been affiliated since the early eighties.IN MY OPINION,there are pros and cons.Trying to hold a civil discussion about this subjet is like trying to shove s&#t out to sea. For us,the cons outweighed the pros.It all depends on your situation.Just a bit of advise,think long and hard on whether the decision would truly benefit your company long term.Good luck!

 

[Greg]

Everyone here that has stated that doing prevailing wage jobs is correct when they say that the labor cost is the same as union as the prevailing rate is essentially union scale plus benefits.

Depending upon the state you are in and the local you would be affiliated with take a long hard look at the IUOE contract in place. Pay close attention to the work rules. Those work rules can cost you a considerable amount over nonunion even when doing a prevailing rate job and paying the prevailing rate wages and fringe costs.

 

[barklee]

Greg and Curb Guy, i really appreciate the info. If you wouldnt mind because i know this is a sensitive issue, could you PM me with your total thought process on this? I would greatly appreciate the info and it would be a great help to my situation. Thanks!

 

[Tony H]

just my 2 cents.

the new San Fransisco bridge was imported and installed by Chinese because Union wage cost many Americans the opputunity to do the work.
Prevailing wage is out of site.

 

[Buckethead]

the new San Fransisco bridge was imported and installed by Chinese

The steel was not set by the Chinese. The steel was manufactured and fabbed in China. It was installed by an American contractor.

 

[Greg]

Buckethead is right, but when they bought chinese steel fabed in china they got EXACTLY what they paid for. I wonder how long before they start having problems due to the chinese quality.

 

[buckfever]

I though any steel used on federalie funded projects had to be made with and buy U.S.A.. At least that is the way it is on the job we are doing. It's funny, we have to file more paper work and jump through a ton of hoops for a couple of catch basin grates but they don't have any oversite on the job it's self or our payroll.

 

[gusbratz]

When I worked at the gas company they drilled a Marcellus well and to save money bought the pipe from china, it kept cracking during installation. They had to buy US pipe and do it over. I don't think they were ever able to get the money back for the china pipe. any way when it comes to steel it is hard to compete price-wise when the competitor is subsidiesed by the Chinese government and is flooding the market with steel cheaper than you can make it at cost. ………….

 

[Greg]

Gee, we don't have the money to buy high quality material the first time but we got the money to buy it again. Where have I heard that before?

Get the money back from the "chicoms?" That is a real laugh. Call it subsidiesed or currency manipulation on the part of the "chicoms," it is all the same.

It all comes back down to "you get waht you pay for."

 

[willie59]

It appears we're getting a little side tracked for the thread topic.

 

[bae216]

barklee I know if you are hiring from the hall you should be able to know you are getting qualified skills for what job skill you calling for. If I did not recieve the appropiate skill from the hall I would send the opereator back. On the most part you will get the right skill set person without having to continue going through the newspaper ads and culling people on your time and having equipment down or trying to allow time for training. Another plus is if you supply fringe benefits for your employees you will write one check each month for all the hours of all the employees and the labor/management adminstrtors takes care of health and pension benefits from there. The administrators then gets all the questions and headaches from dealing with the members and healthcare providers. I do think with the appropiate ratios of journetmen and apprentices you will remain competive and on those prevailing wage jobs as long as they are in apprenticeship programs you can use the less than journeyman craftpeople without the risk of breaking the Davis Bacon rules and can be even more competively with the corect apprentice to journeyman ratio. It is well to let employees know they have a voice when it comes to bargaining for wages and benefits and they will respect you and your company for that right. Good Luck and yea, it is something to put a lot of thought into and I do beleive you should contact the hall with your questions.