undercarriage problems on D6r

[d6peg]

If the things are out of line i would do more checking.With 3 hours and seening a problem with the sprockets being out of line,then might not hurt to check this out.Where the roller frame mounts to the dead axile,might have it spaced wrong then that would cause the roller frame to be off.

Have you checked the seals,bearing,in the roller frame where they mount for leaks.They have bushing in there and i had my D6H leak with 600 hour and tore it down and the axile was worned bad enough that they replaced the dead axile.Someplace new to check if they haven't checked that area out much.

I agree the flaking thing is the hardest problem.I have seen it on the trunion bearing where the dozer blade mounted.Chipping and flaking.Keep us posted.I always like to hear what you find. :usa

Constructo,
Have not checked the spacing dead axle about the shims but I have checked for leaks and so forth no oil any where and the level stays full every time I check it (250hrs). Like you we had to replace a dead axle on our old D6h.

And I will keep you posted as we do some checking. It is probably something simple that has not been checked yet. It might take an undercarriage specialist and not just the general sevice tech.

 

[tctractors]

Knackerd Tracks

d6peg Is the chunk that gets chewed out of your track chain in the tooth point area as the sprocket rotates, I have checked all the spec's on the undercart, the only adjustable points I could see is the top carrier roller shaft, this is to be set from the C,line of the spocket to the C,line of the front idler, to put the top roller central between the two items, the other adjustment ( if desired only) is the shim adjustment to the front idlers, this is to smooth out blade operation by removing the nodding dog effect, the shim's are used to set the idler at the same running hight as the bottom rollers giving more of a flat area to work from, (I hope this reads like I mean) I have found a shim in the one side of an idler but not in the other, putting the wheel on the scunt a good bit , it is also posible to fit the segments back to front, I am thinking of odd /daft stuff here as it must be something a mile out to cause this damage,
On the repaired track thing leaving you with dry links CAT are realy taking the Pi## it says in there Lit, serious damage will occur if the pins are run with no oil, there is also the safety aspect to consider if you are working on a slope/incline of even moderate pitch and the chain brakes ??????.
Any thoughts of Legal action is to be avoided , CAT has bigger guns, and these things only make you bitter???? I would get the salesman and a Product Support person out to sort this situation , I honestly thought your tractor was an LGP, (its about all you see in the U.K,) not the short frame tractor with 6 rollers, if you are running dry links CAT should give you new chains, blowing it on tctractors

 

[d6peg]

Thanks for all the help tc. The chunks that are breaking starts where the pin goes thru the rail all the way back to nearly the next pin. It acually breaks out about half of the face (what hits the rollers) all the way up on the inside. I talked to the salesman and the outside service manager today and the salesman sent another email to Cat. I agree about the legal battle I dont know why I put the bit in one of the previous post about the lawyer (just ranting I guess). It just seems to me everybody throws the lawyer thing out there anymore and I just got caught up in it. I think that the dealer can get this problem straightened out. They are a good group of guys .

Nearly all of the D6r's that I have seen have the carrier roller but mine does not. I thought that might be the problem but I have done some checking with some other machines like ours and they are not having the same problem.

The issue about the dry pins now is that sometimes the pins squeak and get hot and other times they do not. I have got them marked and keeping tabs on them at this time.

I kinda wish the rails would just go ahead and break all the way and maybe I would get a whole new set of rails.

 

[Woodstock]

Woodstock.... most manufacturers have a pro-rata warranty against leakage or breakage as in approved and normal applications the SALT seals shouldn't leak.

Did you talk to your dealer about the problem as I'm sure they don't want to lose your business to an after-market supplier?

I talked to Holt Cat today about the seals on the pins and bushings on my D4G and told them I had some leaking oil and broke two pins in half. He told me that Cat says the seals should only last about four years. I asked him about how many hours, soil conditions, ect. He says Cat doesn't say anything about that just four years they should be expected to go out. I still think they should last longer than that.

 

[Construct'O]

My D6H didn't have the carrier rollers on it, early model,but i had it put on and wouldn't be with out them.The track don't bags down as bad,plus they don't rub the track tighter cyclinder by the idler,when tracks get wore bad.

Also hated the tracks flopping like they was waving at you when you truned.So are you trying to do a lot of counter rotating with you machine?

I thought all the D6R had the carrier rollers,or is it an option and you didn't think you needed them? I would consider putting them on if it was me.Might help your problem,couldn't hurt i wouldn't think at this stage.:beatsme :usa

 

[Wulf]

I talked to Holt Cat today about the seals on the pins and bushings on my D4G and told them I had some leaking oil and broke two pins in half. He told me that Cat says the seals should only last about four years. I asked him about how many hours, soil conditions, ect. He says Cat doesn't say anything about that just four years they should be expected to go out. I still think they should last longer than that.

Well I don't understand that logic Woodstock... are they suggesting that the SALT seals are perishable? I would argue that under normal conditions the SALT seals should always outlast the wear of the link components i.e. until the pin and bushings are ready for the option of turning or replacing.

 

[Wulf]

If you already have a few undercarriage inspections they should project how long the undercarriage would last if the inherent material failure had not appeared.

If external bushing wear and link height are indicating that 6000 hrs is realistic then I would prepare my case to have that life guaranteed bythe manufacturer. Whatever life you don't achieve then CAT should be covering that portion on a prorated basis. If inspections indicate more than 6000 is achievable then maybe your outlay will be less.

The issue about the dry pins now is that sometimes the pins squeak and get hot and other times they do not. I have got them marked and keeping tabs on them at this time.

I kinda wish the rails would just go ahead and break all the way and maybe I would get a whole new set of rails.

d6peg... I've quoted my earlier point about projected life. I'm really surprised that the dealer repaired so many links under warranty and you ended up with dry SALT joints. This is a very clumsy repair,its unacceptable and it makes me wonder whether its being claimed to CAT as it could be the dealers responsibility if they didn't handle the situation and fix it properly.

Do you have inspection showing current bushing wear and link height % and projected life and current hours as I think its important at this point.

By the way... the best way to check for dry joints/hot pins is to run the machine hard for a few hours and immediately use an infrared heat gun (most field techs carry these now but it may set you back a hundred bucks or more if you do it yourself) at the pin ends and identify temperature differences.

 

[tctractors]

Wulf, your post is Bang On, I myself use a hand held heat/temp gun (Snap-on do a good range) to measure the pin temp, or you can use the back of your hand with caution , ( the back of your hand heals faster) it sounds like the track is slaming down on those front idlers knocking great lumps out?????, it is not often that I see H/drives without top carrier rollers, if you can have these fitted it will ease some of the strain on your track groups, the item that is going to get the most damage is the sprocket segments,as the track stretches in an un-even pitch, the dry links wearing faster than the good section, lets hope this snag is soon sorted to a happy end.
tctractors

 

[d6peg]

I agree with the carrier roller taking out some slap and I think it is an option with the standard track ours just didnt have it when we bought it. I know that several years ago it was over $2000 a side, no telling what it would cost now. Of course most of the D6r's are the XL version and the carrier roller is standard with these machines, but our old 6H didnt have carrier rollers either. We bought that machine with an 85% undercarriage and I put another 6000 hrs on it, now granted when we sold the machine (22000 hrs) the undercarriage had about 500 hrs left before the tracks would start falling off.


Wulf,
I dont have a current report on the undercarriage as I also think it would be important at this time, but the problem that I have run into is that nearly everybody in our area are in the oilfield and they dont get but about 4000 hrs on their uncarriages, so in return they are comparing all uncarriages to what the oilfield does. At about 800 hrs they took a report and said the wear was right on. I will keep everybody posted on what happens. I have a good friend that is a mechanic at the dealer I maybe I can get to come out sometime with his temp gun and shoot the pins just to see how many dry pins that the machine does have. I know that by using the hand method that I have 2 on the left side and 1 on the right.

 

[surfer-joe]

Sounds like you got a:
1: Friday built machine
2. Monday built machine
3. Vacation built machine
4. Strike built machine.

Keep hammering on the dealer people and the factory folks too. They won't like it, but sometimes you just have to make such a fuss they can't stand the heat.

Good Luck!

 

[tctractors]

D6peg I have the CAT undercarrage master volume (under-cart Bible) listing every detail going back to the 1940's, one thing it does state is dry link tracks are not ever to be fitted to H/Drive tractors, CAT has 8 main styles of link RTB,SALT & so on , 6 of these options are for H/Drives.
tctractors

 

[Wulf]

Link Spalling?

Here is a scanned page from the CAT undercarriage handbook that was sent to me a few years ago (hope its OK to post it here copyright etc).

It describes the causes of the condition (I guess it presumes that the alloy steel recipe, link forging, heat treatment, tempering or whatever is 100%)

It goes on to state that the condition (as illustrated) is cosmetic unless 30% of the rail surface is affected.

Your additional dilemma now is that the field repair created a separate condition where the dry links will need further attention.

As I said earlier, this could now be the dealers problem not CAT's?

Keep us posted on the situation, actual undercarriage inspection results (% wear and projected life) and some pics would be great

 

[d6peg]

Wulf,
Can you tell the actual book and the page number where you found that information at. Kinda hard to read on this little ole computer. I am going to talk to the dealer rep Monday and see if he will come out and measure the undercarriage and I would like to have it as a reference for him.

I cant believe it me so long to find this forum, the wealth of knowlege to me is unbelieveable. Thanks again. I am going to suggest to the rep that he check this forum out and with the info posted here and what he knows maybe we can find a solution to this problem.

Surfer Joe,
I have allways said from day one that I thought this machine was built on a Monday or Friday.
Now the seat is broke.:Banghead I've been thinking about the airide seat to replace it with ($1800), anybody know anything about them? Good, bad or indifferent. I dont think I want to add any new components that might cause more problems.

 

[Wulf]

d6peg... sorry but I don't have the CAT publication #. I think its called the Caterpillar undercarriage handbook or something similar (maybe a CAT person here may know the number).

If you PM me with an email address I can send you the original file which will be easier to read and print off.

 

[bolt thrower]

"It had all of the paint wore off of the outside edge of the segments and all of the paint on the inside of the rails."

That part sounds normal to me. If you study the suspension geometry on a high drive dozer you will notice that the equalizer bar has 3 pinned points. So, when the machine encounters uneven ground, one track frame pitches up, and one down. The equalizer bar pivots on its center pin, and the outer ends travel in an arc, and get closer to the centerline of the machine. This causes the roller frames to draw in toward the center of the machine, taking the tracks with them. The finals/sprockets are fixed to the frame, so the tracks would bear against the outside of the sprocket segments. The roller frames actually slide in and out on the dead axles.

 

[d6peg]

It had all of the paint wore off of the outside edge of the segments and all of the paint on the inside of the rails.

BT, I understand what you are saying,but the thing that caught my attention was that the right side(outside) of the segments on the right side of the machine has all the paint wore off of them, in fact they look like you have taken a grinder to them. The inside of the same sprockets and the ouside and inside of the left set of sprockets dont, they still have a little bit of paint left on them after 1500hrs of use.

The roller frames actually slide in and out on the dead axles." I realize that they pivot on the dead axle but never knew they slide in and out.

Thanks for the input.

 

[surfer-joe]

d6peg, D6 roller frames do not "slide" on the dead axles. They pivot only. The roller frames are secured by a shimmed cap at the dead axle, and the equalizer beam holds the front end in place. There is a lot of movement up and down, but not sideways. Remember, the roller frame pivot shaft compartment is filled with oil and sealed on both sides.

 

[d6peg]

d6peg, D6 roller frames do not "slide" on the dead axles. They pivot only. The roller frames are secured by a shimmed cap at the dead axle, and the equalizer beam holds the front end in place. There is a lot of movement up and down, but not sideways. Remember, the roller frame pivot shaft compartment is filled with oil and sealed on both sides.

Surfer Joe, I didnt think they slid on the dead axle, but who am I to agrue. We replaced one several years ago on our old 6H and now that you mentioned it I remember the shimmed cap.

 

[Budd]

Ask your Cat Dealer about the Caterpillar Undercarriage Assurance Program

 

[d6peg]

Welcome to the forum Budd.

I didnt know there was such a thing as Caterpillar Undercarriage Assurance Program.