Twin Steer or Reverse Steer Tag or Ideas?

[lumberjack]

Removing bolts/hucks doesn't seem like that big of a job on a clean truck. A healthy impact should zip them right out eh? If not, a plasma will... Redialing the holes doesn't seem like a big deal with a mag drill. I'm not saying I could do it in an afternoon, but aside from waiting on parts, it seems like (to my never have done it self, just looking at what's there), 2 people should be able to knock it out in a couple days.

 

[fast_st]

Hmm, Z out 24 inches of frame in front of the axles and install it behind the axles!

 

[td25c]

I shot a video of this job, didn't take a before picture, but here's the last piece of the tree being removed from somewhat of a tight spot!
]

Nice work on the " deck tree " removal job lumberjack !
You even got to crawl under for the last cut .

 

[crane operator]

Pictures of my other removable axle. Air down spring up. Usually have my spreader bars mounted in the brackets on the top.

 

[crane operator]

 

[td25c]

I was talking to him about pricing/feasability of moving the axles, adding the tag or pusher (or both), and plumbing for trailer brakes. Shooting from the hip, it's looking like a 2 week job, probably $10k plus the lift axle. 2 weeks meaning 80 hours at $85/hr... I didn't get a price on doing the steps separately. Moving the axles doesn't seem like that big of a job, but maybe it is.


Thanks for pulling up those trucks. It's funny, all 3 have the drives forward and a tag axle at the back.

Your mechanic is probably not far off on his estimate . Like RZucker mentioned it aint a short task even with proper tools & equipment . Allot to deal with under the truck other then drillin & boltin . Air lines / valves , driveline , moving toolbox & accessories ?
80 hours for a job like that seems reasonable to me .

You know ...... There is also merit to leaving it be what it is . The Mack is a little heavy on the front & light on the rears . From the work photos it seems to be performing well & looks good in operation .

 

[RZucker]

Your mechanic is probably not far off on his estimate . Like RZucker mentioned it aint a short task even with proper tools & equipment . Allot to deal with under the truck other then drillin & boltin . Air lines / valves , driveline , moving toolbox & accessories ?
80 hours for a job like that seems reasonable to me .

You know ...... There is also merit to leaving it be what it is . The Mack is a little heavy on the front & light on the rears . From the work photos it seems to be performing well & looks good in operation .

Your mechanic is probably not far off on his estimate . Like RZucker mentioned it aint a short task even with proper tools & equipment . Allot to deal with under the truck other then drillin & boltin . Air lines / valves , driveline , moving toolbox & accessories ?
80 hours for a job like that seems reasonable to me .

You know ...... There is also merit to leaving it be what it is . The Mack is a little heavy on the front & light on the rears . From the work photos it seems to be performing well & looks good in operation .

From my experience, trying to match up bolt holes from outside the frame is a slow process if you want it done right, most mag drills don't fit inside the rail. An 80 hour quote... Pretty good deal if they stick to it.

 

[JPV]

If it is a bare frame moving the axles is about like you describe, working underneath the bed I would want a good helper that knows a huck bolt when he sees one. 80 man hours is not unreasonable to me. Nothing hard work and money won't fix!

 

[lumberjack]

Nice work on the " deck tree " removal job lumberjack !
You even got to crawl under for the last cut .

Thanks! Here's the video from that job:

Pictures of my other removable axle. Air down spring up. Usually have my spreader bars mounted in the brackets on the top.

Thanks for the pictures! What are the capacities of the two pin on axles?

Your mechanic is probably not far off on his estimate . Like RZucker mentioned it aint a short task even with proper tools & equipment . Allot to deal with under the truck other then drillin & boltin . Air lines / valves , driveline , moving toolbox & accessories ?
80 hours for a job like that seems reasonable to me .

You know ...... There is also merit to leaving it be what it is . The Mack is a little heavy on the front & light on the rears . From the work photos it seems to be performing well & looks good in operation .

For context, he also parking lot ballparked ~60-80 hours to reframe my grapple truck (should it ever need it). Seems like that would be far more work than moving the axles forward. The truck will be getting more axle(s) under it... the idea about moving the drives forward seems like a win, the only down side is the cost, and I can make money so that's a wash.

From my experience, trying to match up bolt holes from outside the frame is a slow process if you want it done right, most mag drills don't fit inside the rail. An 80 hour quote... Pretty good deal if they stick to it.

Granted I've never done it, but my theory was to use transfer punches, hand (or mag if it fits) inside out, then mag drill from the outside using the pilots to locate the holes.

On that note... how precise are the holes in the frame in terms of tolerance on diameter? I think I remember reading something about reaming the holes, but that seems powerfully precise for what I anticipate it actually needing.

 

[crane operator]

Thanks for the pictures! What are the capacities of the two pin on axles?

The red pin on axle is a modified semi trailer axle, if you had duals on it, it would handle 20k. I only have to put about 10k on it to get legal, so I just run singles on it. Less rubber to scrub while turning.

The black one is a old 20k steer axle, I've only got 385's for rubber on it so I think they would be good for 18k, I actually only need about 10k on it also to be legal.

The reason I oversized the axles so much is that in sharp dips and areas, you can really point load a rear axle very quickly. The black crane is around 60k on its drives (without the 2 extra axles), a too light axle back there is a recipe for disaster, or at least bent up iron.

I got both axles from a local truck junkyard, they had both been under dump trucks as extra axles, they usually have a row of 8-10 of them, and each time I just drive up and pick out something I think will work. I think I gave $500 for each axle, then built the rest of the frame from frame rail from the junkyard, and built the pins and brackets, etc. for the rest.

"When in doubt, build it stout!"

 

[td25c]

From my experience, trying to match up bolt holes from outside the frame is a slow process if you want it done right, most mag drills don't fit inside the rail.

Yeah RZ , we would drill mostly from the outside of the frame with the mag drill .
I've found one of the best tools for indexing multiple holes on a project is .... Cardboard .
Cut it accordingly to shape and clamp it snug to the surface . Then go along with a ball peen hammer knocking out all the holes .
Makes a pretty good template for marking out the new hole locations .

 

[td25c]

Look up in between the axles, there is normally a huge crossmember midway between the axles that may have a gazillion bolts or huck rivets to remove and redrill holes to move it with the axles.

Thought about that while I was wedged up under a customers old R model Mack yesterday .
Installed all drive line seals on the rear axils . Next round the 5th wheel plate is coming off ! I'm gettin to old to be crawling around under suspensions & banging my head for a simple task .
Not to mention washed the pants & shirt 3 times and I still smell like a Mack . LOL!

 

[td25c]

Thanks! Here's the video from that job:

That's pretty cool lumberjack !

Your better on the remote control then I am !
What few RC planes I had in the past it usually ended bad
I would have to set in the seat position to operate your rig

 

[RZucker]

Thought about that while I was wedged up under a customers old R model Mack yesterday .
Installed all drive line seals on the rear axils . Next round the 5th wheel plate is coming off ! I'm gettin to old to be crawling around under suspensions & banging my head for a simple task .
Not to mention washed the pants & shirt 3 times and I still smell like a Mack . LOL!

Bulldog lift his leg on you?

 

[RZucker]

Granted I've never done it, but my theory was to use transfer punches, hand (or mag if it fits) inside out, then mag drill from the outside using the pilots to locate the holes.

On that note... how precise are the holes in the frame in terms of tolerance on diameter? I think I remember reading something about reaming the holes, but that seems powerfully precise for what I anticipate it actually needing.

Yes, I do use transfer punches and drill a 3/16" pilot hole from the inside where possible. But in the "K" member between the axles there are a lot of holes you cant hit that way.
And yes, I use frame reamers. personally I think its easier than fighting the mag drill most of the time, 3/16" pilot hole, drill out with a 3/8" bit, then a 3/8" to 1/2" reamer, then a 1/2" to 5/8" reamer. Mag drill is great if you don't have a bunch of suspension brackets or existing bolt heads where the shoe needs to go.

 

[Truck Shop]

This is the type of reamer RZ is talking about, a Car Reamer. I haven't used a mag drill for years I start with a 1/4 pilot drill and 3/8 and on up with reamers.

Truck Shop

 

[td25c]

Bulldog lift his leg on you?

He sure did RZ rite after he took a dump . What a mess .

 

[lumberjack]

So are the bolts in shear and require a precise diameter or are they used conventionally and derive the strength of the joint through clamping loads/friction?

Trying to understand why reaming is so prevelant vs twist drills.


Also... on a camel back suspension, how do you align the axles, or do you just align the front to the rears?

 

[td25c]

Also... on a camel back suspension, how do you align the axles, or do you just align the front to the rears?

If your moving the rear tandems forward or aft measure off an old existing bolt hole along the frame that held the Mack trunnion sub frame to index the new hole locations .

Fancy way of sayin measure off the old bolt holes on each side .

Good lord power wash it first if it looked anything like the last Mack I worked on !

Lumberjack's Mack rig looks pretty neat & clean .

 

[Truck Shop]

So are the bolts in shear and require a precise diameter or are they used conventionally and derive the strength of the joint through clamping loads/friction?

Trying to understand why reaming is so prevelant vs twist drills.


Also... on a camel back suspension, how do you align the axles, or do you just align the front to the rears?

Car Reamers will cut more holes at a faster speed using lots of [cutting oil} than drills. Plus the hole is smoother than drilling and less prone for a crack to start. A 1/2" reamer will fly
right through hard A$$ frame rail.

Truck Shop