trouble disconnecting hydraulic hoses

[Fatjay]

I got the first hose off, the nut spun, reluctantly, on the hose. The second one though, not so much. I don't want to break it, so I'd love to hear some suggestions if anyone has any. My spool valves are leaking badly and need rebuilt, so I have to get the hoses off to get it off. Any tricks to this?

 

[Blueboy]

Its hard to tell exactly what fittings you have. The first one and the center two (4&5) look like JIC fittings which has a swivel nut. Two wrenches should get it off. If the others are NPT (pipe threads) unless they have a swivel end (I don't think so) you'll have to spin the entire hose. At least one end of each hose has to have a swivel end to get the hose off. Cant see the ones underneath. But it looks like fun.

 

[Tinkerer]

The hose you have the pipe wrench will not come loose with the wrench on it like it is. Because it appears there is no swivel there. You have to turn the hex fitting counter clockwise. Take the pipe wrench off and look at the other end of that hose for a swivel.

 

[Fatjay]

I got the first one off, the one with the wrench. It swiveled, but not easily. I assume it's because it's 60 years old. The second one I don't think has a swivel. It's not turning other than in the elbow fitting. Every hose has a different fitting, I'm wondering if I should just replace them all.

Here's a link to the bigger picture for a better view. I appreciate the help.

http://i.imgur.com/g6R2oh4.png

 

[mowingman]

Be sure and mark those hoses before you remove them, so you can get them back onto the same fitting they came off of.

 

[Fatjay]

Yes, I got a paint pen and did hte 1-6, and that was a big reason for the pictures. Didn't want to mix that up.

 

[lantraxco]

None of those hoses have swivels, they're all stright pipe on the ends, and if they turn in the hose, you need a new hose. The two in the middle there and the big one on the far left have a "Pipe swivel" fitting to aid in disconnecting, the hose you have the wrench on needs to come loose on the other end and then you turn the whole hose to thread the end out of the elbow.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .Fatjay

As I see it there are only three hoses that will come off that valve bank, as mentioned by lantraxco, the two in the centre and the large one on the left . . . the swivel fitting stays on the valve bank.

On all the others the far end needs to be disconnected and then you turn the hose out of the fitting, if a hose turns on a fitting it is ruined and you need a replacement.

You need to meticulous about not getting dirt in the far end when you undo them as those hoses are going to be pretty set in their ways and will not want to bend as you unscrew them, it is truly a poorly executed installation . . . it would have been so easy with the correct fittings.

Not to be picky but a plumbers wrench has no place around hydraulics. (big grin)

Cheers.

 

[willie59]

Holy Cow, I feel for ya the way they set that thing up with those pipe thread fittings!

As others stated, you're going to have to take em loose from the opposite end of the hoses to get them to turn and unscrew. If a wrench won't turn the hex of the hose end, a little heat on the elbow threads from a propane torch should help pop them loose, no need to get them red hot. Heck, I'd even be tempted to whack the hoses off with a zizz wheel and deal with the fittings after the valve is removed, of course one would have to replace all the hoses then.

When you finally get it ready to re-install, do yourself a favor and install some swivel adapters like on those two hoses in the center.

 

[Fatjay]

All new hoses it is! I turned them. They were in rough shape anyway. I think I will buzz them on the other end. I'll install those easy adapters like the middle ones, boy were they easy to turn. The rest, not so much. Probably because they weren't supposed to. :beatsme Being built in 1952 I can't really complain though.

I'm kicking myself though, if I would have dropped the hoe, I could have stilled used the tractor. To late for that as I'm head first in.

Got the valve bank off and have questions. At the bottom of each is that cylinder, which has a hole in it. Some have a plastic plug, some have nothing, and one has what looks like a bolt/washer/nut. They leak a bit. Is there supposed to be fluid down there? Or is that a bad o-ring somewhere?

Found the culprate, one of the bottom cups had blown out. When I used that valve it spewed fluid. I wouldn't have noticed had I not had my daughter up on it while I was watching. Any idea where I can get a replacement part for that? The way it sits Im not sure I can press it flat again.

Also there seems to be an extra hose to the swing, not sure what for.

How do I clean this thing? I don't want to put it back together iwth grit and paint flakes getting into the lines obviously. I imagine hitting it iwth the hose would not be to good either.

Here I'm destroying a hose, unknowingly at the time. It crossed my mind but "nah, it has to be this way".

Here's the issue. You can see it's not flat, so it wouldn't seat. It's the left stabilizer. I was working it pretty hard to lift the back, it didn't want to go and kept seeping down.

 

[willie59]

The holes in the bottom of those spring caps are normal, vent holes, and no, there shouldn't be oil down there, oil would be the spool seal leaking.

You need to straighten the flange on that one cap, those caps play a role in centering the spool in neutral.

Coat the springs real good with some form of assembly grease on re-assembly to prevent rust from moisture coming through the vent holes.

You could pressure wash the valve before disassembly, otherwise some brake cleaner and compressed air would help a lot.

 

[Fatjay]

Should hte vent holes have plugs? Should I try to straiten the cap or replace it?

 

[willie59]

Well, you could plug the holes with plastic plugs as shown in the pics, but there needs to be at least a little hole in the plugs to provide an atmospheric vent.

You likely will have to straighten the bent cap flange. Being a 1952 machine, you'd be lucky if you sourced a replacement cap.

 

[lantraxco]

Clean the linkage end of the spool up good and then the spool will slip right out the spring end so you can see what the seals are. Hopefully just O-rings, but you won't know until you see them. Might as well replace them all if you can, one spool at a time, including the ones at the other end where there's just a plate with two bolts holding the seal in. May be a dust seal on that end also. Getting the seals in and the spools slipped in without cutting the seals can be a challenge, send some pictures with the spool out and we'll see what you're up against. May be nothing more than having to roll a new o-ring the length of the spool so you don't have to try to undo all that spring mechanism on every spool.

As Willie sez, that cap holds the back end of the centering spring setup, if it's stretched you will be able to move the spool appreciably in neutral. If it was me I would bolt it back on, place a piece of flat stock across the end of the cap nice and square and gentlty caress it with small ball peen hammer until there was just a barely perceptible amount of slack in neutral. Don't go too far. Oh, and be thankful those caps were not of the die-cast aluminum variety, they just popped the ears off instead of bending!

The swing now... don't know what machine you're working on there, some of the swing mechanisms were made such that they needed a drain hose for internal leakage, probably just carries drain oil off to tank?

 

[Fatjay]

Thanks for your help.

Machine is a 1952 oliver 77 with ware industrial loader/backhoe. The spools in question are ware products.



I cleaned it up a bit and slid the tubes out. These are for the stabilizers.



The o-rings must go on the inside, but I'm not sure where yet. there are none to speak of in these two.

 

[mikebramel]

They're right on the end, in the closest groove to the outside

 

[Fatjay]

Found them all and pulled them off. They all looked to be in good condition. They're flat, though, with one side having a dip in it I'm assuming for expansion. Finding these might be tough, do you think I could get away with standard o-rings?

 

[Fatjay]

The part that gets me is none are damaged, yet all leak. I checked closely to the one that was leaking the worst, and there was nothing out of the ordinary.

I'm going to pressure wash the valve body, do I need to plug hte holes first?

Also the top retainers have a built in rubber/metal gasket thing that does not want to come out. An extra on top of the one inside. I was going to clean it up and leave it there rather than risk damaging it.

 

[lantraxco]

I would think any good hydraulic seal outfit could match those up, I know I've seen seals like that before anyway. Kind of like a tiny lip seal, did you note which way they were facing, with the groove towards the inside probably? They may well be 60 years old, and just tired.

Yeah, the linkage end will normally have something designed to keep dirt from intruding....

 

[Fatjay]

The groove was facing in for all of them. I have 6 ring type in my oring box, but they're a bit to fat. I gotta find a hydraulic shop around here, local hardware store doesn't have anything either.

Edit: They're apparently called u cup's, good to know.