Travel issues with TK TB257FR.

[KSSS]

My TK TB257 has travel issues. It feels like the pump destrokes or some kind of pressure regulation issue. The tracks continually looses power and speed. After a couple of seconds it will work then destroke again. Does it both moving forward and back and regular and high speed. While it sucks, I can't afford to be without the machine so I continue to use it. Which brings me to the dealership issue.

The machine is still under warranty, but Taki pulled their dealership from the CASE dealer this Spring A disagreement on the number of CTL's the dealership was willing to order resulted in Taki pulling their dealership. The dealer would take all the excavators that Taki wanted just not the CTLs. This results in me having to take my machine to Boise, a 4.5 hour drive (one way), which totally pisses me off. I corresponded with the president of Taki North America, at the end of the day, they could care less. The CASE dealer here has carried Taki since the early 2000's. There are a lot of Taki mini ex's and CTL's through out eastern Idaho and western Wy all without a dealer. Taki out of Boise, quoted rates of $1K a day just to get a mechanic here. They refuse to let the Taki mechanics here even look at the machine. If I didn't like what the 257 as much as I do, I would trade it off immediately. I had almost bought a Taki 2150 instead of the LB 160X4, I am at least thankful I didn't do that.
I realize this is the consequences of using equipment from an OEM with questionable dealer representation, after 20 plus years of a local dealer selling Taki, I didn't forsee this happening, but sure enough.

 

[hvy 1ton]

Few years ago, Victor L Phillips(Case CE dealer) and Takeuchi corporate got into and went their separate ways. We went from 3 Kansas dealers plus KCMO to Tak deciding the KC Road Builders' store would continue to be the only one not selling Tak. They gave KC to Kirby Smith; Who is now handling 3 lines of excavators and if they don't have a part, their closest dealer is Tulsa.

 

[KSSS]

The funny thing is had they kept this dealer until they found a replacement it would have been fine. Now they had dedicated TK customers, many of which are thoroughly pissed, cant get parts parts or service. Taki would rather have no dealer than a dealer that would only take a portion of the CTL's they wanted. Seems totally ridiculous to me, especially since I just bought a new mini ex thinking that I had dealer support.

 

[uffex]

Good day
Do you have any possibilty to measure the crawler pressures ?
Kind egards
Uffex

 

[KSSS]

That is what the dealer here and in Boise wanted to do. I was hoping to check the pressures to help narrow down the issue to limit the time it needs to spend at the dealer. Winter looks like is enroute. I will pull it in and see if I can pull the pressure off the gear pump that runs the tracks, if it is some thing simple, it might be cheaper to fix myself than pull it to Boise and back. Any chance uffex you know where the track pump pressures are supposed to be on this machine?

 

[uffex]

Good day KSSS
According to my information, your machine has two speed travel motors 1.6 & 3 mph, however the speeds will reduce automatically according to the drive pressure required. Max drive pressure 3480p.s.i.
I recommend you measure what pressure you are finding when the machine slows at the motor see attached, as a central joint issue will be more apparent.
I do not have a hydraulic schematic for the 257 if you have one to post or a photo of the motor label I maybe able to help some more.
There are more tests you can make to identify the source of the problem. If you would like, I can post a troubleshooting link to you.
Kind regards
Uffex

 

[Tags]

I had a friend that had a 2150 with the exact same issue, they replaced valves, travel motors, and just about anything else you could think of and it never got resolved. He ended up getting rid of it and buying a Volvo 145.

 

[uffex]

That sounds like a challenge Tags.
Kind regards
Uffex

 

[KSSS]

I had a friend that had a 2150 with the exact same issue, they replaced valves, travel motors, and just about anything else you could think of and it never got resolved. He ended up getting rid of it and buying a Volvo 145.

That is the last thing I was hoping to see.

 

[suladas]

As much as I love my 153 I would never buy another Tak piece. Between the awful dealer support here (3 different dealers in the last 12ish years), and Tak having so many stupid rules and being so slow to get parts it's not worth the hassle. If you trust the ex dealer to fix it properly if it was me i'd pay them to fix it and send the bill to Tak and tell them to cover it, or sue them for it. Being the ex dealer fixing it and still under warranty I can't imagine you would have any troubles winning, I mean 4.5 hours away it would cost thousands more for the other dealer to fix it.

 

[uffex]

Good day
While it appears that KSSS issue is not isolated, I suggest it must be fixable if the machine was working in the earlier days of ownership.
It must be safe to assume so early in the machine's life the problem is not so serious.
Any of you folks help out with a hydraulic schematic or motor information, I have schematics for Tacky machines however I am missing the 257.
Kind regards
Uffex

 

[KSSS]

The schematic may be much the same as the 153 which the 257 replaces, but I don't know that. It should be fixable since it used to work fine. I will say this, this machine since new would make an odd chattering sound from the pumps when working an angle, especially when tipped to the direction of the dozer, turned around and it wouldn't do it. Hyd. level is correct, but it sounds like a pump chattering, may be starving? I have had 3 other 153's and worked at sic angles before without an issue. I suspect something was not right with this machine from the beginning, but what I am not sure. When help is so far away, and you need the machine, doesn't leave a lot of options. I imagine it is going to spend a lot of time in Boise this Winter, at least the Winters are much better there.

 

[uffex]

Good day KSSS
My experience of dealer support is not so good, however, I was surprised and shocked to open my Email this morning.
In desperation, I had contacted local dealers requesting a Hydraulic schematic for the 257. So often requests of this nature are ignored, well I just got what I asked for, a real credit to that dealer's staff.
I will digest the information and come back with some specific details.
Kind regards
Uffex

 

[KSSS]

I sure appreciate the help Uffex, thanks

 

[heymccall]

Myself, having quite a few Takeuchi machines, I offer the following.

I suspect a fuel starvation issue. I've seen it on all of mine, the difference being that the older machines I have aren't common rail, with fully computerized hydraulic pump control.

The inlet elbow to the water separator plugs with debris. On older machines, the engine simply falters. On a common rail machine, with a fuel restriction, the engine won't falter until the restriction in fuel is tremendous. Instead, the computer does everything in its power to maintain rpm, including decreasing/ destroking the pumps.

Remove the water separator assembly, fully disassemble, and 100% verify that there is no inlet passage restriction into the housing.


I don't believe that you have a hydraulic issue, but rather a fuel issue, masked by the machine software programming.

 

[KSSS]

I will give it a try, thanks.

 

[uffex]

Good day
That is an interesting observation Hymccall is making, however the original post makes no mention of power drain issues with the remaining circuits.
It would be of interest to measure revolution loss when fully extending the arm in addition to raising the boom from ground level. If the engine kills, you could interpret that as a fuel issue.
Common cause for noise from pumps in that of heavy grade of fluid > Partial blockage of the suction filter > air leaking into suction lines and lack of tank pressure. The latter requires a few full cylinder movements to generate the pressure, which maybe checked by pressing the release valve.
The hydraulic schematic reveals some one way and 0.5mm restrictions to the spool pilot connections for the travel/track spools, what effect these may have I'm not to sure.
I suggest we see what the result from the above actions reveal before going deeper into the hydraulic system.
Kind regards
Uffex

 

[KSSS]

Yea it works fine in all other respects, but checking the fuel issue is simple and worth crossing off. The chattering of the pump only occurs when the machine is at an angle of say 15-20 degrees. I frequently depress the release valve on the tank, but I can check that as well.

 

[KSSS]

As much as I love my 153 I would never buy another Tak piece. Between the awful dealer support here (3 different dealers in the last 12ish years), and Tak having so many stupid rules and being so slow to get parts it's not worth the hassle. If you trust the ex dealer to fix it properly if it was me i'd pay them to fix it and send the bill to Tak and tell them to cover it, or sue them for it. Being the ex dealer fixing it and still under warranty I can't imagine you would have any troubles winning, I mean 4.5 hours away it would cost thousands more for the other dealer to fix it.[/QUOTE).

I have thought about this. I am concerned about how expensive this could be to fix on my own. Part of buying a new piece is the peace of mind with having warranty. The idea of having to fix it myself when I have warranty, sets me sideways. Honestly, I think I pissed Taki off to the point they will fight me every step of the way. I have thought about fighting them in court, I do believe I could win, but how long will that take? I love these FR machines, but I am with you, this is the last Taki machine I will buy. I think that CASE could maybe fix it, but Taki will give zero support to the dealer in helping them to do so. If this issue showed itself on a 2150, and they couldn't find it, I am not sure these guys could either.

I finally got the machine back home, and did as suggested with the fuel system. I cleaned the sediment bowl and the filter located in there, replaced the fuel filter and it made no difference. I do agree though it could be the computer causing the issue, just not sure why.

We are about done here for this year, temps getting close to zero at night, so I will likely take it to Boise. Your right though. It will be an expensive trip, that I get to make twice. However I have no real option, except in the decision on what I buy next time, there I do have an options.

 

[DGODGR]

Did you ever get any resolution on this?
This whole thing simply wreaks! Having to pay $1k per day to get warranty work done is simply NOT acceptable. Takeuchi should allow you to get the thing repaired in your area if you can find a qualified technician to do the work. Pioneer (your local Case, and formerly Takeuchi dealer) has the qualified help. I'd bet money that they have several mechanics that have been trained by Tak directly. Please check the fine print of your warranty. They may even have such a clause in there as tho allow this if you are a certain distance away from a certified dealer. Even if not, I would think that they would let you take it to Pioneer since that was the Tak dealer when you bought the machine. Especially considering the distance factor as well as the sudden franchise termination.
In my mind it is another example of the LIE that we are being fed daily. That lie is the constant barrage of the pitch that tells us how if you buy their tractors (be it Tak, Case, Deere, etc., etc,.....ANY brand) they will be there to help take care of you. That message comes from the salesman, they send it to you in postcards, brand magazines, emails, and we even get to hear those lies while we are on hold during the phone call to try to get them to keep their promise. It fries me to no end how that is forgotten as soon as it might cost the dealer, or MFR some money to make something right. In this case I don't even see how it will really cost Tak that much. They are going to have to pay the Boise dealer to fix it...Why do they care who they write the check to? Get the customer taken care of. Save face with your brand. Build customer confidence instead of eroding it! If you are going to tell me that it is because the Boise dealer will do it for the "contracted warranty rate", I won't disagree with that.....But I bet that his local dealer will do it for that same amount too, even if it doesn't work out perfectly for them. IMHO they would do so because they sold him said machine and they would want to make it right for their customer. At least that's what I think that they should do. Of course, they may have also forgotten their "LIE" as well.

The one thing not addressed here is the possibility of additional trips to Boise. Often times issues like this can be difficult to get resolved. My mind wanders off to how many times I may have taken a machine to a dealer for repair, only to have to return it (one, or even more times) when the machine exhibited the issue again once I got it back to the job, or shortly there-after. It is bad enough of a pain when the dealership is only 30 minutes away, let alone 4.5 hours. Of course, there is the option to try out the machine before you leave the dealership. Unfortunately, often times there may not be a place there to really put the machine through it's paces, or to simulate the conditions in which the machine exhibits the issue.
I empathize with you in this. I am in a similar boat with my Bobcats. I refuse to do business with the local dealer so I am forced to take a 4 hour drive north (over two 11,000' elevation passes) to get decent service done on them. I hate even thinking about it. I am having more issues with my "long in the tooth" Bobcat (6,500 hrs on her now) which has brought me back to considering the FR Taks again. As long as I have been on this forum you have been a strong advocate for the Tak brand. It is unfortunate to see that you have soured on them now.
I have (3) possible sources for Tak in my little town. It seems like they will let anyone sell them with no real regard to franchise controls or areas. To that point, United Rentals can sell them. You might consider that as an option but, I must admit, my previous experiences with UR mechanics doesn't leave me with a ton of confidence. You never know....Maybe there is a good one on your area.
Again, I'd like to hear an update as to where you're at in the process of getting it fixed.