Total new guy to heavy equipment, looking for some information and advice

[Ascinder]

Hi, I am trying to find maybe a good FAQ or similar source of info that will really school me up on excavators. I have looked for awhile now and all I've come across are pretty shallow and only really touch on the "no $h!t" topics of excavators and heavy equipment in general. Is there anywhere that explains more in depth on what makes a good excavator vs. one thats on its last legs?
I am planning on buying a tract of land in the mountains in Montana and building a semi-underground house there. I am anticipating having to deal with some significant sized rocks and probably bedrock eventually. The planned excavation is approximately a 3,000 sqft footprint that will go down to a maximum depth of 3 stories. Most of the excavstjon will only be 1 story deep with only a small portion being 2-3 stories. The site will walk down in depth to allow digging access to the lower excavations. The site is not level, but not at all steep (maybe just a handful of degrees) and there is plenty of room to maneuver. The site is fairly remote so Id prefer not to have to make trips for parts and repairs.
My initial thoughts were to try and get a machine slightly larger than I thought Id need since its a lot easier for a larger machine to tackle smaller jobs than a small machine trying to take on more than its designed for. I was planning on something in the $10-20,000 dollar range depending on condition and any needed minor repairs. I think that puts me squarely in the 80's-90's era market for what im looking for. My question is what machines were reliable and durable above all else back then and can be easily field repaired or serviced. I am an aviation mechanic by trade so with the right tools and a guidebook I feel comfortable replacing hydraulics and anything thats not too heavy. I know undercarriage repairs are expensive so stay away from those, and I'll need a bucket with a thumb to remove large boulders. Possibly an aux line for a jackhammer. Again, I dont know, please school me up and te me if im missing anything or if this plan is totally off base.

 

[JGibson]

I don't know how of a good machine you will find for a 10,000-20,000. But heres something...http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9720827

 

[GregD1]

The biggest item missing is the $$$$ budget numbers. I`m sure something can be found but at that price, I`m not sure it would even have an engine in it. Good luck.

 

[Wolf]

Are you going in Montana why do you want to take them into the ground live.

Don't you want to be a miss sunshine?

 

[Ascinder]

My problem is not a shortage of equipment available in my price range. I have come across way more than enough to have many options. The issue at hand is being able to sort good from bad. I come from a mechanically oriented line of work where I work with high precision parts and equipment that spin around really fast. Right now if I went and looked at a potential excavator purchase my mind would condemn it just because the assumed tolerances in my mind would call it bad based on what I'm used to working with. So what I am asking is what tricks of the trade do you guys use when you're going out to inspect your equipment. What is normal, within limits wear and tear vs. signs of deliberate abuse? What models or brands even would you stay away from back in the 80's-90's? What machines had an Achilles heel or were always breaking down or needing parts? Which ones just seemed to be a good solid workhorse with easy to repair/replace parts. Which ones were more capable and which ones less? How do you determine if an undercarriage is 80% or 40%? If some guy's BSing me, I want to be able to see that and adjust the costs accordingly. If I buy a unit that's got a solid undercarriage, but needs some other "minor" repairs, I want to be able to determine that they are truly minor and not some part that's going to cost nearly the purchase price of the machine. What range of tonnage machines must I absolutely have to get the job done but not be absolute overkill?

 

[Ascinder]

Also, to answer your question Wolf, only half of my house will be below ground. It is a heating and cooling advantage. The property is at 7000 feet in the mounains and gets 220" of snowfall per year. An earth sheltered house helps heating and cooling costs a lot.

 

[Delmer]

There's not a good general answer to most of your questions. You could try asking about a specific model you're considering. By that era most of the kinks had been worked out, and after 25 years the shape of the particular machine will be more relevant than how long they lasted on average.

As far as undercarriage, figure out what worn bushings, sprockets and rails look like, how to measure track length and what that means, hydraulic fluid analysis wouldn't be a bad idea. Why not get a quote on having the hole dug? Sounds like you've got enough plans already, to be tackling a project like getting to know the excavating business top to bottom.

While you're at it, think about insulation. It's cheaper than waterproofing. Earth sheltered houses fell out of fashion for a reason.

 

[Ascinder]

There's not a good general answer to most of your questions. You could try asking about a specific model you're considering. By that era most of the kinks had been worked out, and after 25 years the shape of the particular machine will be more relevant than how long they lasted on average.

So again, how is that judged? What am I actually looking for? I have seen quite a few oddball brands while searching, I have a feeling they would be more difficult to source parts and service for than say a CAT, Deere, Komatsu, etc. I would also assume that excavator brands are a bit like car manufacturers with some displaying attributes that set themselves apart from the others for competitive purposes if nothing else.

As far as undercarriage, figure out what worn bushings, sprockets and rails look like, how to measure track length and what that means, hydraulic fluid analysis wouldn't be a bad idea.

I thought that's what I was asking here? Where is a source of info that shows that? Isn't there a general maintenance book that everyone uses or an excavator maintenance checklist out there somewhere?

Why not get a quote on having the hole dug? Sounds like you've got enough plans already, to be tackling a project like getting to know the excavating business top to bottom.

I have a lot of digging to do and hiring it out does not make financial sense. The site is remote which means I'm paying for someone else's travel time every day. The house is only one of many things that need to be dug up. I have several trenches to dig as well as a septic, a cistern, battery room, drainages, and on top of that, the perimeter of the house has to be completely cut away down to a depth of three feet, 20 ft. out. There is also grading and retaining wall work to be done. When I can buy a decent working unit, use it for a season or so at my leisure, and turn around and sell it for pretty close to what I paid for it, I don't see any advantage to hiring the work out. I think if I could get a couple answers to the questions I've been asking, getting to know the excavating business wouldn't be all that hard.

While you're at it, think about insulation. It's cheaper than waterproofing. Earth sheltered houses fell out of fashion for a reason.

I have read about 6-7 different books on underground/earth sheltered/earth bermed houses. I have also corresponded with several people who have been happily living in theirs for over 20 years. Earth sheltered houses fell out of favor due to decreasing energy costs plain and simple. Add to that the fact that quite a few were built by people who had no idea what they were doing or contractors that tried to apply above ground building materials and techniques to underground construction and you will have water issues. If you do your homework you will find that many of the issues with underground homes is brought upon them by those building them incorrectly. That, and they are just plain unappealingly ugly as far as houses go. There's no sense of character since they just look like hills with windows or products of a bad acid trip. My place is planned as a semi-underground home with roughly 50% above ground and 50% below. It's really just a normal house with an extra floor or two of basement.

 

[Delmer]

The easiest way to explain how to judge an undercarriage is to measure the links. Position the machine so the track is straight and tight and measure the distance over as many links as you can. As the chains wear, they stretch. You'll have to find a chart that will give you the percentage of wear for that length and model. The quick and dirty things to look at are if the sprockets are worn that they're pointed, not blunt like new ones, the bushings that ride on the sprocket have flat spots worn, not round like new ones, the links of the chain and the rollers wear out also. Go to an equipment auction and look at enough of them and you'll see the difference. Dozers wear tracks out at a more uniform rate than excavators, so you can start looking at dozer tracks to see some dramatic differences.

Unless it's past worn out, you won't have issues with a mostly worn out track, but it's one factor in resale value. Planning to resell like you are, the conventional wisdom is to stick with the big names. The other way to look at it is you might find an oddball that's such a better deal that what you'll lose when you resell it won't matter. Not quite like deciding between a GM or Honda, new or off lease.

We're not even talking about hydraulics, but I assume you know you're way around there?


"Earth sheltered houses fell out of favor due to decreasing energy costs plain and simple." I'll respectfully disagree with that statement. There have been lots of houses built over the last decades that are extremely easy to heat, most of them were not particularly earth sheltered. It sounds like you might be considering an umbrella insulation strategy, or is that just the waterproofing going out 20'? I'd run the numbers to predict just how much heat you're going to be using/saving, then add up the additional costs vs the cost of alternatives: superinsulation, passive solar, firewood. If you just want a bunker then you'll build a bunker, I'm just suggesting that there are more effective ways to save energy.